# I Before E Except After C **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 12, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418 "2015-10-12T13:55:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/21 "2015-10-13T15:13:22Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > The rule as I learnt it is “I before e except after c when the sound is ee”. That is probably about as accurate as you will get. All I know is, McDonald’s now offers breakfast _all day,_ and I could really go for bacon and eggs with a cup of coffee – because, hey, why not seize some protein with my caffeine? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/22 "2015-10-13T15:16:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I can’t even think of any words where ‘ie’ is pronounced ‘ee’, off the top of my head. Really? I always fancied you were great at coming up with examples. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/23 "2015-10-13T15:19:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I can’t even think of any words where ‘ie’ is pronounced ‘ee’, off the top of my head. Frieze. Keep this up and the mods bounce us to Thread Games. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/24 "2015-10-13T15:22:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Why is this (generally) the way Engligh words are spelled? I just realized this is beyond the usual username/topic alert. This is username/topic chutzpah. ETA: At least is name isn’t Psmith. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/25 "2015-10-13T15:22:43Z")
Meh, they can do that at their leisure. ---
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/26 "2015-10-13T15:24:12Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Plus, depending on how you pronounce 'em, “either” and “neither”. So add to the rule, “or when pronounced like ‘a’ as in neighbor and weigh, or if pronounced like ‘a’ when you are in Scotland, like either and neither.” Admittedly, I suck at placing accents, but pronouncing ei like a in those words sounds vaguely Scottish to me… ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/27 "2015-10-13T15:31:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Meh, they can do that at their leisure. Bravo, have a cookie, but don’t take the one intended for my niece as my chief belief is in giving thievish fiends some measure of grief. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/28 "2015-10-13T15:35:13Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Anyway, **Chronos** , I think you’re just backing up the point that QI tried (and possibly failed, because ceiling) to get across: When you have a rule that includes “except when X, and except when Y, and except for about as many random exceptions as there are instances of the rule”, then that’s not a very useful rule anymore. I’d say " e before i when the digraph rhymes with ‘day’ " is a genuine rule. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/29 "2015-10-13T15:39:51Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > don’t take the one intended for my niece as my chief belief is in giving thievish fiends some measure of grief. Sensible; that’s why democracies have policies against unconscientious financiers. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/30 "2015-10-13T16:01:52Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > All I know is, McDonald’s now offers breakfast _all day,_ and I could really go for bacon and eggs with a cup of coffee – because, hey, why not seize some protein with my caffeine? Didn’t say it was perfect, just slightly better than the “except when the sound is a” version. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/31 "2015-10-13T16:13:45Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Didn’t say it was perfect, just slightly better than the “except when the sound is a” version. I of course agree that it’s more efficient to so limit it to that subspecies. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/32 "2015-10-13T16:25:09Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Sensible; that’s why democracies have policies against unconscientious financiers. O’Reilly? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/33 "2015-10-13T16:28:18Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > O’Reilly? Shucks, I figure _every_ society – even ancient ones – guarded against piracies. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e-except-after-c/734418/34 "2015-10-13T19:23:29Z")
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