# I before E **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 21, 1999, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698 "1999-12-21T19:44:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Calamity\_Jon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b782af/32.png) [@Calamity\_Jon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calamity_Jon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/1 "1999-12-21T19:44:00Z")
Hey folks, long time no see. We’re over here trying to remember the complete “I Before E” rhyme. We get as far as “I before E Except after C Or when sounding like A As in Neighbor or Weigh…” Anyone remember how the rest go? Thanks * * * -An epistle most prosaic, courtesy of _Calamity Jon_. Jon can be seen swinging from trees at [ape-law.com](http://ape-law.com) ---
**Author:** ![Boris\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Boris\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boris_B)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/2 "1999-12-21T19:54:00Z")
I thought that’s all there was to it. You could add something about either and neither, if you wanted. And something about German surnames? Neither Einstein nor Frankenstein would like it if we spelled them wrong; your neighbor is a sensei and he wouldn’t like it either. Weird, huh? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/3 "1999-12-21T19:54:00Z")
“…but weird people have their own rules.” ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/4 "1999-12-21T20:20:00Z")
… and scientists are a breed apart, after c. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/5 "1999-12-21T20:56:00Z")
and its not even a rule. I recall reading a list of 300+ english words that don’t follow that rule. ---
**Author:** ![Arken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@Arken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arken)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/6 "1999-12-21T20:58:00Z")
300+, handy? Well that’s just… weird. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/7 "1999-12-21T21:31:00Z")
In the movie “A Boy Named Charlie Brown” there is a song about the rule. IIRC, the other exceptions were about words that had to do with chemicals like “caffeine and codeine.” ---
**Author:** ![Beruang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@Beruang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beruang)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/8 "1999-12-21T21:33:00Z")
Some people have no conscience… ---
**Author:** ![douglips](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@douglips](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/douglips)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/9 "1999-12-21T21:44:00Z")
One way I’ve heard the rhyme finish is > [@](#): > > Except as an ‘A’ as in neighbor or weigh. ---
**Author:** ![douglips](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@douglips](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/douglips)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/10 "1999-12-21T21:44:00Z")
As douglips fails the reading comprehension test. LOSER!! ---
**Author:** ![pluto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f08c70/32.png) [@pluto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluto)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/11 "1999-12-21T22:14:00Z")
glacier ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 1999, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/12 "1999-12-21T23:08:00Z")
seismic society ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/13 "1999-12-22T02:36:00Z")
The doggerel I heard was: “I” before “E” Except after “C” Or when sounded like “A” As in neighbor and weigh. Except for eight exceptions: Weird, height, and foreign leisure, Neither, seize nor forfeit, either. (The eight exceptions miss a number of others, such as–but not limited to– sleight heist feisty geisha and heifer.) I would generally exempt foreign words from the rule, so geisha and all the German “ei” words get a pass. There are quite enough holes in the rules in the English language. ## ( **pluto** and **beatle** , glacier and society follow the “except after c” rule.) Tom~ ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/14 "1999-12-22T02:38:00Z")
(Depending on your dialect, geisha is spoken GAY sha, bringing it back under the rule.) ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/15 "1999-12-22T02:50:00Z")
“I” before “E” **Except after** “ **C** ” > [@](#): > > (pluto and beatle, glacier and society follow the “except after c” rule.) Sure, I’ll bite, Tom. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Kaje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kaje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaje)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/16 "1999-12-22T05:58:00Z")
another important exception is the name “Keith” which i myself bear… my god… my entire school career has been confounded with countless yearbook entries to “Kieth”…it’s so annoying! * * * The only thing a nonconformist hates more than a conformist is another nonconformist who does not conform to the prevailing standards of nonconformity. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/17 "1999-12-22T06:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > (pluto and beatle, glacier and society follow the “except after c” rule.) Sorry. Distracted by kids moment. Reading skills dropped to nil. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/18 "1999-12-22T17:53:00Z")
Its on the net as: Write I before E Except after C Or when it sounds like an A As in “neighbor” and “weigh” Some exceptions [there are more]: seize, either, weird, height, foreign, leisure, conscience, counterfeit, forfeit, leisure, neither, science, species, sufficient ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 1999, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/19 "1999-12-23T06:22:00Z")
So, if the rule has _that_ many exceptions, can’t we just admit that it was a pretty bad dea in the first place and then abandon it? * * * “Rigardu. Kaj vi ekvidos…” -Persone ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 1999, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/20 "1999-12-23T06:23:00Z")
So, if the rule has _that_ many exceptions, can’t we just admit that it was a pretty bad idea in the first place and then abandon it? * * * “Rigardu. Kaj vi ekvidos…” -Persone [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698.md?page=2)