# I before E **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 21, 1999, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698 "1999-12-21T19:44:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Beruang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@Beruang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beruang)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 1999, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/21 "1999-12-29T06:30:00Z")
Cleaning out my desk (an annual ritual during the slow week between Christmas and New Year’s), I ame across this list of exceptions which I personally have run across: I AFTER E foreign feignt, feign feisty their weird atheist height either neither Keith I BEFORE E, EVEN AFTER C science conscience proficient sufficient efficient species ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 1999, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/22 "1999-12-28T19:57:00Z")
Found on the net… **"I" Before “E” Except After "C"** It’s a rule that is simple, concise and efficeint. For all speceis of spelling it’s more than sufficeint. Against words wild and wierd, it’s one law that shines bright Blazing out like a beacon upon a great hieght, It gives guidance impartial, sceintific and fair In this language, this tongue to which we are all hier. 'Gainst the glaceirs of ignorance that icily frown, This great precept gives warmth, like a thick iederdown. Now, a few in soceity choose to deride, To cast DOUBT on this anceint and venerable guide; They unwittingly follow a foriegn agenda, A plot hatched, I am sure, in some vile haceinda. In our work and our liesure, our homes and our schools, Let us follow our consceince, sieze proudly our rules! Will I dilute my standards, make them vaguer and blither? I say NO, I will not! I trust you will not iether. * * * If I wanted smoke blown up my ass, I’d be at home with a pack of cigarettes and a short length of hose. ---
**Author:** ![torq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@torq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torq)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 1999, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/23 "1999-12-28T20:42:00Z")
German ie/ei for English speakers: If it sounds like the name of the letter I, it’s “ei.” If it sounds like the name of the letter E, it’s “ie.” The English rule “I before E except after C” doesn’t actually tell you what to do after C, so technically “science” and words like it only violate an implication of the rule, not the rule itself. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 1999, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/24 "1999-12-28T22:24:00Z")
I’ve always wondered if “seeing” and “being” are exceptions to the rule, or if they’re exempted somehow. What about “reiterate”? ---
**Author:** ![Boris\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Boris\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boris_B)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 1999, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/25 "1999-12-29T00:44:00Z")
Oh, I still like the rule despite its numerous exception. If you count compound words like “reiterate”, it does have a ton of exceptions, but the rule needn’t be invoked with compound words. I mean, if you spelled it “rieterate” then you are really misspelling (sp?) the prefix and the root independently. Really, the rule should only be applied to non-foreign diphthongs. What counts as non-foreign in the English language? Good question. “Heifer” is foreign because it looks foreign, durn it! Seriously, though, I don’t know where you’d make the distinction, especially with French and Germanic words. ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 1999, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/26 "1999-12-29T02:50:00Z")
Actually, despite being one of the horde that have posted exceptions, I find the rule useful. When writing a quick note we often consider whether a word “looks” right. Trying the rule on those to which it applies often settles the matter without need for reference. ---
**Author:** ![Lawrence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Lawrence](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lawrence)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 1999, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698/27 "1999-12-31T04:41:00Z")
Of course, the I before E rule isn’t a rule, it’s a guideline. Not to get into linguistics here, but the spelling of written words is a very “surface” characteristic of a language. Guidelines about spelling were made up well after the fact, as primitive English was a language by 500 AD, entered a form comphrensible by modern people about 13-1400, was printed in a distinctly modern form at about 1600, and received a more-or-less standard spelling between 1700 and 1800. Spelling guidelines are very superficial and were made up long after the fact to sort of explain general spelling patterns. I find the I before E except after C guideline useful when some combination of the two letters depicts the “long E” sound as in receive and believe. Now, who wants to have some fun with the silent E guideline? If the E makes the preceding vowel “long”, why isn’t love pronounced to rhyme with stove? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-before-e/5698.md?page=1)