# I believe Jose Canseco **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-believe-jose-canseco/289071 "2005-02-08T22:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-believe-jose-canseco/289071/61 "2005-02-10T15:03:31Z")
But because Vince McMahon got into some legal trouble with the distribution of steroids in the mid-90’s, people say that is the reason they know these wrestlers are **NOT** on 'roids! ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-believe-jose-canseco/289071/62 "2005-02-10T15:22:42Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Without the native talent, steroid use is meaningless. What’s the point? Steroids pretty much doubled their productivity, that could never be achieved through natural means. They have to have good hand-eye co-ordination to start with, yes, but the strength and the speed gained from the steroid use is cheating. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-believe-jose-canseco/289071/63 "2005-02-10T15:30:22Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > No, but interestingly enough modern baseball architecture turned home runs into warning track flies. I’m not old enough to remember when Yankee Stadium’s right field wall was 296 feet away from the plate, but c’mon, guys. How many dingers have gone out of Yankee Stadium because of that extra 30 feet? How much did Babe Ruth/ Mickey Mantle/ Roger Maris benefit from having chip shot home runs? How many dingers would Ted Williams have hit with that as his home park? How many homers would Joe DiMaggio have hit at Fenway? > > With all of the changes in baseball, the only comparison to the old game is the base and mound layout. That’s why I don’t think records are tarnished by this sort of stuff. Considering all of the fidgeting around with mound height and infield dirt, you can barely even say that. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-believe-jose-canseco/289071/64 "2005-02-10T15:49:34Z")
> [@pkd88](#): > > The problem is that is say 10% of the batters are on steroids, and you are an up and coming pitcher who has to face this 10%. Your trial period is short. The entire league is also facing this 10%, which means that even if the rookie does 10% worse statistically, the entire league likely also is. And, if a rookie has the ability to be better than another option, the rookie will get another chance. Some rookies will suck if every hitter is a Rosary chanting saint and some will do wonderfully if every hitter looks like Paul Bunyan. But, if the entire league is facing similar competition, then the baseline that rookie is facing will be consistent. > [@pkd88](#): > > Another factor is salary. Even your established players have their salary based on their performance. More money is spent on those who cheat then those who don’t. Teams have budget’s so it is a double problem. You pay more to the cheater and that removes potential money from the amount available to the non-cheater. > > One team filled with steroid users vs a team of non steroid users. Is this a fair game? The salary a team pays out is solely up to the team. There is no hard salary cap that a team reaches and has to stop. They can choose to pay out very little or they can choose to blow the cap out of the water and pay the associated tax that goes with it. At the same time, GMs and owners aren’t stupid (ignoring the Cam Bonifays of the world). They have a fair idea if someone is a likely juicer, especially with the last 3-4 years of heavy focus on the problem. Sure the stats may be better, but steroid use leads to a higher incidence of nagging muscle injury. And, just because someone can crank out 66 homers due to increased mass, they may lose a lot in terms of defense and speed on the basepaths (looking at you Sammy). So, a team picks and chooses what it wants. If you play in Coors, maybe it makes sense to sign the homer smacking monster and avoid the slap hitting jackrabbits. If you play in Dodger Stadium, it makes more sense to gear toward pitching and players that get on base consistently. Additionally, if we go with the idea that steroid users drive up their own salaries, there has to be a reason. People like home runs. So, say Player X hits 70 homers in a season. He has a likely positive impact in wins and losses. He also represents a spectacle to be seen. Both of those drive up fan interest, which can spark attendance and merchandise sales. Revenues go up. Salary caps go up. Not all of the increased cap space goes to cheaters, which means more money is available to other players without risking the luxury tax. I guess my overall point is this. I hate the idea of steroid injected idiots being lauded for their achievements. But, up until now, it wasn’t against baseball rules. It probably happens on every team, but not to the extent that someone like Canseco puts forth. And, in the end, though they may put up improved power numbers, there is a lot more to wins, losses, and team improvement than the idea that one guy smacking 70 dingers can change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-believe-jose-canseco/289071.md?page=3)