# I blew up a Toastmasters group last night **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672 "2020-08-21T14:38:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/41 "2020-08-22T18:15:06Z")
> [@tripthicket](#): > > He said hamburger, not ninja. And killing people is _right out_ . But hamburgers are made from mammals, so they are ninja-by-proxy. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/42 "2020-08-22T18:58:31Z")
I have to admit, I had no idea what Toastmasters was and I thought it sounded like it might be about a group of people who love grilling food, lol. Never heard of it before. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/43 "2020-08-22T19:07:17Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > “If you woke up in the morning and found yourself transformed into a hamburger, what would you do?” Eat me ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/44 "2020-08-22T19:28:02Z")
He’s an old white man on oxygen and a cane. Don’t like how he’s described? Tell him not to be old, white, male, on oxygen, with a cane. Otherwise, all I got is ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯ ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/45 "2020-08-22T19:52:01Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > all I got is ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯ Whatever that is. You are being a bigot, nothing less than you are so dismissive of him for. Stereotyping a person because of descriptors that in this case aren’t substantive. If you want to insist on your right to be a bigot, do. You indeed have that right, as I do to continue to call you out for it. You are a bigot. I’m calling you on it. That he is old has nothing to do with the errors of his ways or thinking. That you think it does is the laziness of privilege. It is dismissive mockery made possible by iniquity of power in our culture. Likewise is your persistence that the use of a cane or oxygen has anything to do with anything, except as your vehicle for devaluing a person you perceive of as being lesser than you because you disagree with them. Canes and oxygen are medical, they do nothing to form a person’s political or social relevance. Tell us what color shoes he wore or the model of his wristwatch, it matters as much and it is less derisive. You are a bigot, you seem to take pride in it even when it is pointed out. I will take pride in continuing to call you on it. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/46 "2020-08-22T21:12:37Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > > [@JohnT](#): > > > > all I got is ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯ > > Whatever that is. I assume he meant ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯ ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/47 "2020-08-22T21:24:55Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I assume he meant ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯ Thank you. That helps. Maybe I should tone down my hissy fit a titch. Just a titch. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/48 "2020-08-22T21:36:28Z")
Maybe not. The stereotypes implicit in the OPs description of Matthew I didn’t notice, until you pointed them out. But you’re right. Nevertheless, I’m joining in the standing ovation for @JohnT’s smackdown of this MAGAt. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/49 "2020-08-22T21:45:44Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Nevertheless, I’m joining in the standing ovation for @JohnT’s smackdown of this MAGAt Me also👏🏻. I wish I had emphasized that more. But, ageism and ableism hits me hard. Don’t get me going on misogyny within SDMB. [BTW, I’m not saying misogyny was happening either direction here] So, John, 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻. Keep up the good work. Use your wit and articulateness as a force for good, which you did. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/50 "2020-08-22T22:02:14Z")
See, I took the “stereotype” as illustrating the stupidity, ignorance, and irony of an elderly, disabled person supporting the person who considers medicare to be a socialist plot and is trying to disallow pre-existing conditions from insurance coverage. In fact, it seemed so obvious as to not even mention, as not everything needs to be spelled out. But maybe it’s just me. Old white guys for trump are a demographic group. So are old white guys for progressive causes, but that’s not who JohnT encountered at his meeting. I’m in a social club that happens to include both groups, and the hypocrisy of the old white trumpian guys is stunning. It’s usually the old people _with_ disabilities in the group who are progressive and sympathetic to people other than themselves. Apparently Matthew has not made that mental leap. Another couple of posters suggested that JohnT was stereotyping ALL old white guys, and several others pointed out that that wasn’t what actually occurred, if people would go back and read the OP again. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/51 "2020-08-22T22:05:37Z")
Honestly, I don’t see a stereotype in the OP. I see a description. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/52 "2020-08-22T22:22:26Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > It’s usually the old people _with_ disabilities in the group who are progressive and sympathetic to people other than themselves. One of my points. I consider myself one of these ‘old people’. I’m asking for others to consider being more sympathetic to others perhaps different than themselves. Ableism, ageism is also in the eye and ear of the beholder, not only in the intent of the speaker. If smited I get to say ‘ouch, please don’t do that again to me’. > [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t see a stereotype in the OP. I see a description. If it was intended to be only a description it would not have needed to be mentioned more than once. If not mocking and a caricature it would not have been repeated. Very few ways to interpret he ‘moved aside his oxygen tube’ as other than as a mocking trope. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/53 "2020-08-22T22:34:26Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > > [@needscoffee](#): > > > > It’s usually the old people _with_ disabilities in the group who are progressive and sympathetic to people other than themselves. > > One of my points. I consider myself one of these ‘old people’. I’m asking for others to consider being more sympathetic to others perhaps different than themselves. Ableism, ageism is also in the eye and ear of the beholder, not only in the intent of the speaker. If smited I get to say ‘ouch, please don’t do that again to me’. Did you even read my first paragraph? A disabled old person is just as capable of being hypocritical as a young able-bodied one. JohnT brought up **Matthew’s age and disability because it was relevant to Matthew’s hypocrisy**. Are we not allowed to point out old people who are hypocrites, especially when the hypocrisy is about their and others’ disabilities? They get a free pass now? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/54 "2020-08-22T22:35:38Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > If smited I get to say ‘ouch, please don’t do that again to me’. There is an awful lot of projection going on here. ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/55 "2020-08-22T22:35:42Z")
Bravo! This is why we need a “like” button. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/56 "2020-08-22T22:38:02Z")
It’s interesting how differently each of us took the OP. For me it was about white _males_ of that generation, the generation when white males still held all the power. Now that generation–my generation and a bit older–have aged, and some are infirm, but age has not brought wisdom nor infirmity compassion to all of us, especially that large segment that was white and male and privileged to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/57 "2020-08-22T22:39:32Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > There is an awful lot of projection going on here. Yes, there is. Self aware of you to notice. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/58 "2020-08-22T22:43:11Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > It’s interesting how differently each of us took the OP. For me it was about white _males_ of that generation, the generation when white males still held all the power. Now that generation–my generation and a bit older–have aged, and some are infirm, but age has not brought wisdom nor infirmity compassion to all of us, especially that large segment that was white and male and privileged to begin with As always, beautifully said. Thank you, @nelliebly. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/59 "2020-08-22T22:56:46Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Did you even read my first paragraph? A disabled old person is just as capable of being hypocritical as a young able-bodied one. JohnT brought up **Matthew’s age and disability because it was relevant to Matthew’s hypocrisy**. Are we not allowed to point out old people who are hypocrites, especially when the hypocrisy is about their and others’ disabilities? They get a free pass now? Yes, I have read everyone’s paragraphs at least three times. Of course a disabled old person is as capable of being hypocritical as a younger able bodied one. But what does age, young or old have to do with it? What does abled or not have to do with it except to pigeon-hole and disempower someone? The first mention of descriptors old, cane, oxygen may be to set the stage or tell apart the players-if everyone else is also detailed in the playbill, without resorting to tropes. This was not the case. Most importantly, someone tell me how Matthew’s age and disabilities were **relevant** to his hypocrisy? I concur he was a hypocrite, but how is age and disability _repeatedly_ related? How was his hypocrisy about his and other’s disabilities and age? You can point out others’ hypocrisy always. Only children get free passes. How often do bigots agree “oh, yes, come to think of it I _am_ a bigot”? Usually takes decades of evolving introspection. We’re at the beginning of ageism and ableism pushback. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672/60 "2020-08-22T23:08:53Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > Most importantly, someone tell me how Matthew’s age and disabilities were **relevant** to his hypocrisy? **Because his speech was in support of the party that would take away his healthcare as being “socialist” and would disallow those pre-existing conditions.** He is on Medicare. Because his speech was supporting the face-eating leopard party which would eat his face if given the chance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-blew-up-a-toastmasters-group-last-night/918672.md?page=4)