# I call BS on Bush bathroom note **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 15, 2005, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765 "2005-09-15T12:13:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/61 "2005-09-15T21:36:02Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > I think the integrity of the actual image is verified by the fact that it was taken by a professional of 12 years and also by the fact that it was on the Reuters wire. Three words… Dan Rather…CBS Wait, that’s 2 words. and three letters, but you get my drift. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/62 "2005-09-15T21:46:35Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Three words… > > Dan Rather…CBS > Wait, that’s 2 words. and three letters, but you get my drift. Surely you see the difference here in that CBS received information that was forged,from an anonymous source, whereas a veteran Reuters employee actually claims and has signed this photo? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/63 "2005-09-15T21:47:56Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > So what do you expect him to do when he gets the urge to go? Jump up, raise his hand, and go, “Oooh, ooh, Mister Secretary-General Sir, may I go to the bathroom?” That’s more or less what Michael Jackson did once during his recent trial. Of course, he’s in his own little world, **much** more so than Dubya. Also, I forget if anyone’s already brought up Bush the Elder in Japan, but I’m wondering: Was he perhaps diffident about asking to be excused, or did he just not have any warning? ---
**Author:** ![Amaranta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Amaranta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amaranta)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/64 "2005-09-15T22:08:20Z")
Does it seem odd to anyone else that he would be signing the note, “W”? Or weird that he would be signing it at all? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/65 "2005-09-15T22:15:38Z")
Are you sure he **is** signing it? ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/66 "2005-09-15T22:19:25Z")
> [@amaranta](#): > > Does it seem odd to anyone else that he would be signing the note, “W”? Or weird that he would be signing it at all? Maybe he’s just in love with himself. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/67 "2005-09-15T22:25:06Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Surely you see the difference here in that CBS received information that was forged,from an anonymous source, whereas a veteran Reuters employee actually claims and has signed this photo? You mean anonymous as in passed to CBS by Bill Burkett via George Conn or Lucy Ramirez, depending on which story you believe and purportedly written by Jerry B. Killian? Ummm. Yes. I _do_ see the difference… :dubious: Let me draw you a picture… Dan Rather, a veteran newsman, published a story on a respected network. This does not guarantee the story is true. I am saying that just because a veteran photographer took the pic and it was published by Reuters doesn’t mean it is beyond reproach. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/68 "2005-09-15T22:27:36Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > You mean anonymous as in passed to CBS by Bill Burkett via George Conn or Lucy Ramirez, depending on which story you believe and purportedly written by Jerry B. Killian? > > Ummm. Yes. I _do_ see the difference… :dubious: So in other words, there is no definitive statement out there of who passed along the forged memo. No, say, signature at the bottom? > [@](#): > > Let me draw you a picture… > > Dan Rather, a veteran newsman, published a story on a respected network. This does not guarantee the story is true. > > I am saying that just because a veteran photographer took the pic and it was published by Reuters doesn’t mean it is beyond reproach. Perhaps. What you have yet to demonstrate is any real reason to doubt this photo, beyond your own incredulity. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/69 "2005-09-15T22:33:15Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > So in other words, there is no definitive statement out there of who passed along the forged memo. No, say, signature at the bottom? It was given to them by Burkett. > [@](#): > > Perhaps. What you have yet to demonstrate is any real reason to doubt this photo, beyond your own incredulity. No I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/70 "2005-09-15T22:34:19Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > No I don’t. I mean yes I have…as have others. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/71 "2005-09-15T22:40:52Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > I mean yes I have…as have others. > > :smack: You and others have made statements that fail to understand photographic principles (not that I expect everyone to be a photographic expert), and calling into credulity his writing instrument, finally into “someone in the press was wrong before, they’d do it again!”. Not to mention there is no reason for Reuters to publish this signed photo if it is a forgery, which they would have to know it to be, given that it comes from within their agency. Forgive me if I don’t find this compelling. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/72 "2005-09-15T23:07:01Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > You and others have made statements that fail to understand photographic principles (not that I expect everyone to be a photographic expert), and calling into credulity his writing instrument, finally into “someone in the press was wrong before, they’d do it again!”. Not to mention there is no reason for Reuters to publish this signed photo if it is a forgery, which they would have to know it to be, given that it comes from within their agency. > > Forgive me if I don’t find this compelling. I forgive you. ---
**Author:** ![Kakkerlak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bb73d2/32.png) [@Kakkerlak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kakkerlak)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/73 "2005-09-15T23:21:50Z")
I’m going to have to change my tune on this one. I’m not a photographer, it’s just that the strong gradient in focus just sang out “I’m fake !” to my untrained eye. I’ll defer the weird look of the photo to those who understand shallow fields and f-stops. Every other photo in the galleries I’ve looked at was composed totally differently. Hats off to the photographer who was able to stand way back in the gallery and say to himself “I wonder what Georgie is writing ?” And then I got a good look at the table; yeah, those are pencils on his right, with a stack of notepaper to boot. It’s gotta be tough listening to a full day of blah-blah-blah and then getting up to deliver more of your own. Good luck for George that they didn’t catch him scratching his butt. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/74 "2005-09-15T23:39:15Z")
[According to Reuters photo editor Gary Hershorn](http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/newswire/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001137642), Wilking didn’t know what the note said when he submitted the photo: > [@](#): > > According to Hershorn, Wilking was one of several photographers covering the United Nations Security Council meeting between about 11 and noon yesterday. He was part of a pool stationed on a balcony that faced Bush’s back; a group of White House photographers was on a balcony facing the president. > > Wilking shot about 200 images and sent two memory cards to the press room at the U.N., where Hershorn was working. Hershorn looked at the images on a computer and initially decided not to send any of them. > > But a few hours later, he started to wonder about a note that Bush was seen writing in three of the pictures. Out of curiosity, he zoomed in to see if he could read it. > > Once he saw what it said, Hershorn decided the note was interesting and worth publishing. The white parts of the picture were overexposed, so a Reuters processor used Photoshop to burn down the note. This is a standard practice for news photos, Hershorn says, and the picture was not manipulated in any other way. Although the burn tool is just spot-adjustment for exposure, some outlets are already running this under misleading headlines like [President Bush Bathroom Break Note Photoshopped](http://www.nationalledger.com/scribe/article_2726741.shtml). In this sense, nearly _all_ news photos are Photoshopped. Colour-correction, contrast adjustments, cropping – these are all routinely done with tools like Photoshop, but saying that an image is “Photoshopped” implies that it has been substantially altered from the reality that it represents. Seriously, I have no idea why people feel the need to doubt that this happened. The guy needed to pee. This is something that happens to us all, several times a day. I wondered why they would choose to _publish_ it (which may have been a bit naive, considering how much we’ve all been talking about it,) but I don’t get where the idea that it must be fake is coming from. What’s more likely – that a photo editor at the top of his profession would throw his career away in order to pass a fraudulent image off _for a laugh_, or that a guy just needed to go to the bathroom? > [@Kakkerlak](#): > > Good luck for George that they didn’t catch him scratching his butt. Or [after hurrying a little too much in the bathroom](http://www.larrymudd.com/images/b3ta/bush_fly_open.jpg). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/75 "2005-09-15T23:52:17Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > I forgive you. Hey man- I am just breakin’ yer balls. No hard feelings. Me--------\> :wally ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/76 "2005-09-16T01:50:29Z")
As far as Bush’s privacy goes, I first saw the note, as I think most of us did, posted in the middle of a group of dozens or hundreds on Yahoo news. It’s a curiosity at most. > [@Lips\_Obsession](#): > > I mean, how intrusive is this??? We don’t know who wrote the bathroom break part. The caption does not say it was Bush and does not say who passed the note to him. > [@](#): > > Are they that desperate to embarass Bush they have to find stuff like this? Sheesh!!! Yeah, it’s that darn urine-obsessed liberal media again. First they gave him a free pass on the Iraq war, now they took a picture of a note he’s writing where someone asks for a bathroom break. Why must they hound him so? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/77 "2005-09-16T03:29:07Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Hey man- I am just breakin’ yer balls. No hard feelings. > > Me--------\> :wally Okay, Why the fuck does anyone really care to believe this is fake. Even if you are a Bush fan, what do you care? Dan Rather who did have a repuation to uphold took shady information from a shady source which had absolutely no risk in giving this kind of fake info. The only way for this to correlate to the Rather situation is if the Reuters photographer somehow got this “information” from a shady source. So Rather was basically sticking his neck out for something that was risky, but here the photographer himself had a reputation. Its not like he could say it was someone else’s work. But even futher… Why does anyone feel its fake? Its obvious that the bathroom request wasn’t even made by Bush. It isn’t his handwriting, and he is simply responding. To use the example of Rather is simply stupid, and makes no sense. It was validated by Reuters, and is further backed by the photographer himself. Its not speculation of what happened in the past, its a fucking photo. Jeez ---
**Author:** ![The\_New\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@The\_New\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_New_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/78 "2005-09-16T07:12:13Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > It doesn’t boggle the mind half as much as why any news source would find it worthy of publiciation at all. What’s next his to do list, or maybe a list of groceries he wants the secret service to pick up? I dunno - did you object last time he appeared on the evening news barbecuing at his ranch? Or jogging? How is that stuff any more newsworthy than writing a note? ---
**Author:** ![Otanabi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Otanabi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otanabi)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/79 "2005-09-16T11:16:11Z")
Has anyone considered this scenario? Someone slides the prez an “I gotta pee” note. Before he passes it on to Condie, he thinks to himself “if we had a break here, I could make that phone call I’ve been worried about.” So he adds, “is this possible?” I’m no Bush fan, but I’m just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765/80 "2005-09-16T12:00:45Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > 1. Does the leader of the free world write with a pencil you would find in grade school? (no comments on the President’s intelligence here!) I would think the leader of the free world would use at least a MontBlanc… What’s your basis for reaching this conclusion? Not everyone, not even every person who holds high public office, is interested in high-quality writing instruments. At large meetings such as diplomatic sessions at the United Nations, every seat is generally stocked with notepaper, pens, and pencils, as well as the documents needed for the discussion. And the pencils are most often ordinary, wooden pencils, the kind that a lot of people use, not just grade school students. Even if someone has an expensive writing instrument in his or her pocket, especially someone who is not particularly concerned with using such instruments, when wanting to write a quick note, he or she will grab the nearest instrument at hand, which, in this case, was an ordinary wooden pencil. Why is this doubtful? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-bs-on-bush-bathroom-note/321765.md?page=5)