# I call racism! Or maybe feminism-- Dixie Chicks and Black Eyed Peas. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 11, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741 "2004-03-11T18:39:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/21 "2004-03-12T00:41:38Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Um, but it wasn’t applied, to, say, Justin Timberlake. Consider this parallel: > > “Black people are stupid.” > > _That’s racist._ > > "The same statement could have applied to, say, **white people**. So I don’t see the ‘ **racism** ’ in that. I think the point is that the original phrase – “dyed-blond bubbleheaded celeb” – is not gender specific. There are plenty of dyed-blond bubbleheaded _male_ celebs out there. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/22 "2004-03-12T01:09:44Z")
> [@Fang](#): > > c) I haven’t heard the song in question, but rap is frequently difficult to understand (in terms of hearing what the rapper is saying), I would say more so than rock. For those who have heard it, are the lyrics said clearly? This is exactly why I think “Born in the USA” was adopted by so many politicians. On a casual listen the only part that is even remotely understandable is the chorus. So if all you hear is “I was born in the USA!” over and over again, you’d think it was a pretty patriotic song too. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/23 "2004-03-12T14:53:08Z")
It’s not just BEP. Jay-Z rapped anti-war lyrics on Panjabi MC’s _Mundian Te Bach Ke (Beware of the Boys)_: “International Hov, We['re]… back home screamin “Leave Iraq alone” But all my soldiers in the field I will wish you safe return But only love kills war, when will they learn?” [aside]Also, can anyone explain the Ronald Reagan reference in these lyrics: “Before bin Laden got Manhattan to blow, Before Ronald Reagan got Manhattan to blow,”[/aside] I think the Jay-Z/Panjabi MC song was also Grammy-nominated. And on Outkast’s album _Speakerboxx/The Love Below,_ (also Grammy nominated) Big Boi’s song _War_ contains the lyrics: “When will we all, awake up out this dream Come here and smell the Folgers, the soldiers are human beings Man actin as if he was the supreme bein Clockin the souls of men out like he was G-O-D and W-A-Rrah, there’ll be no tomorrow but sorrow and horror will follow the hollow hearts battle for dollars Politicians, modern day magicians Physicians of death, more health care for poor health Who makin us ill, they makin us kill That’s makin me spill my guts (chill Big, lay in the cut) For what? I refuse to sit in the backseat and get handled Like I do nuttin all day but sit around watch the Cartoon Channel I rap about the Presidential election and the scandal that followed, and we all watched the nation, as it swallowed and chalked it up, basically America you got fucked The media shucked and jived now we stuck - damn!” All mainstream artists, all in the past year. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/24 "2004-03-12T15:06:45Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Then they exercise their OWN freedom of speech. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean you have to agree with whatever anyone says. Yes it does. “Freedom of Speech” means that common people are not permitted to disagree with celebrities. When ordinary people disagree with celebrities, they are violating those celebrities’ freedom of speech. Commoners like you and me don’t deserve freedom of speech. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/25 "2004-03-12T15:19:47Z")
The matter regarding the Dippy Chips is one of audience (country music). The same is true for Streisand (old people). Their audience demographic is not exactly the most amenable to criticism of the government. It’s essentially a marketing decision for them. If they’re willing to take the PR/market hit, then they can go ahead and say what they want. However, if they say what they want, they should be willing to take the PR/market hit. It’s either stupidity or childishness for them to think that people are not permitted to buy or not buy their product on whatever basis damned well suits them. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/26 "2004-03-12T15:28:38Z")
> [@Dogface](#): > > Yes it does. “Freedom of Speech” means that common people are not permitted to disagree with celebrities. When ordinary people disagree with celebrities, they are violating those celebrities’ freedom of speech. Commoners like you and me don’t deserve freedom of speech. Why do you think this when this very thread is about how The Dixie Chicks got nailed to the wall by “commoners” while BEP were not. It almost seems like you’re saying BEP are celebrities while DC apparently aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/27 "2004-03-12T15:31:11Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Dogface_ > Yes it does. “Freedom of Speech” means that common people are not permitted to disagree with celebrities. When ordinary people disagree with celebrities, they are violating those celebrities’ freedom of speech. Commoners like you and me don’t deserve freedom of speech. Oh, look, it’s strawman day at the conservative club. Or was there a point hidden amongst all your blithering? ---
**Author:** ![CaptBushido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@CaptBushido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptBushido)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/28 "2004-03-12T16:12:21Z")
I think some of you guys are _way_ off here. Let’s use the Dixie Chicks as an example. Natalie Maines has just criticized the presiden’ts policies and intelligence. Now… Example of a person who has abandoned respect for the right to free speech: “She should not be ALLOWED to say that! She must be legally forced to apologize and retract her statements!” Example of a person who **is exercising their own right to free speech:** “That was a really stupid thing for her to say, and she is a stupid person for saying it! I’m boycotting her music and thinking up insulting names to call the band over internet message boards!” Now, feel free to call the latter people total dipshits, but to say that they are only paying lip-service to free speech is completely absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/29 "2004-03-12T16:16:22Z")
Here’s another song that largely slipped under the radars. System of a Down’s[Boom!](http://www.lyricsdir.com/s/system-of-a-down/boom.php) ---
**Author:** ![CrazyMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee59a6/32.png) [@CrazyMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyMonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/30 "2004-03-12T19:28:52Z")
This is a comparison of Apples to Oranges. The BEPs are taking a stance on the war and speaking on it, giving their opinion and their reasons for their opinion. The Dixie Chicks made a cheap-shot personal attack on the president: > [@](#): > > Just so you know, we’re ashamed the President of the United States is from Texas. Being made in front of a foreign audience added insult to injury. It’s like saying “We know the world is laughing at America, and WE ARE TOO!! HAHA!” I’m not judging right or wrong for either the Chicks or the BEPs, or for any other artist/journalist/whoever that has made a statement for or against the war in Iraq or just poking fun at our president. I’m just pointing out that the difference between the Chicks and the BEPs isn’t race, musical genre, sex, or anything like that – it’s content. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/31 "2004-03-12T19:35:56Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Why do you think this when this very thread is about how The Dixie Chicks got nailed to the wall by “commoners” while BEP were not. It almost seems like you’re saying BEP are celebrities while DC apparently aren’t. BEP isn’t up and whining about how their “freedom of speech” is being destroyed because mere paeones are disagreeing with them. The Dippie Chips did exactly that. The attitude of liberals is quite plain: Ordinary people ought not to be permitted to disagree with liberal celebrities. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/32 "2004-03-12T19:39:06Z")
> [@CrazyMonkey](#): > > This is a comparison of Apples to Oranges. The BEPs are taking a stance on the war and speaking on it, giving their opinion and their reasons for their opinion. The Dixie Chicks made a cheap-shot personal attack on the president: > > Being made in front of a foreign audience added insult to injury. It’s like saying “We know the world is laughing at America, and WE ARE TOO!! HAHA!” > > I’m not judging right or wrong for either the Chicks or the BEPs, or for any other artist/journalist/whoever that has made a statement for or against the war in Iraq or just poking fun at our president. I’m just pointing out that the difference between the Chicks and the BEPs isn’t race, musical genre, sex, or anything like that – it’s content. I came into this thread to make this exact point. It’s not what’s being said, it’s how (and largely, where) it’s being said. Protest songs are nothing new… Neil Young’s Ohio, Bob Dylan’s Blowin in the Wind, etc. No uproar, no outcry, but no outright defamation of the country or its President either. I wsn’t mad that the Dixie Chicks oppose the war - but to insult their own President in front of a foreign audience is not acceptable, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/33 "2004-03-12T19:55:35Z")
> [@Dogface](#): > > BEP isn’t up and whining about how their “freedom of speech” is being destroyed because mere paeones are disagreeing with them. The Dippie Chips did exactly that. The attitude of liberals is quite plain: Ordinary people ought not to be permitted to disagree with liberal celebrities. I still don’t understand how this means that only celebrities get to speak their mind. The Dixie Chicks said something some people didn’t like. Those people expressed their displeasure. The DC expressed their displeasure with those people’s displeasure. Seems to me freedom of speech is doing just fine on all points. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/34 "2004-03-12T20:11:42Z")
It’s a conspiracy. When Iraq was starting up, the Dixie Chicks came out with “Travelin’ Soldier,” a sweet, sappy anti-war song. The song quickly went to the top of the charts, as we country music fans cried our little eyes out. Some of the male country artists wanted to cash in on 9-11, but they were taking a more testosterome-oriented approach, and having the Dixie Chicks dominating the airwaves with a cautionary tale was, well, a bee in their bonnet. So they exacerbated the situation and sold their albums by saying “This is what country music _really_ thinks about the political situation,” and by getting radio stations around the country to take “Travelin’ Soldier” off the air. In particular, Toby Keith has these offerings: _Beer for my Horses_ Grandpappy told my pappy’ back in my day’ son A man had to answer for the wicked that he done Take all the rope in Texas Find a tall oak tree’ round up all of them bad boys Hang them high in the street for all the people to see that _Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue_ Hey Uncle Sam put your name at the top of his list And the statue of liberty started shaking her fists And the eagle will fly And its gonna be hell When you hear mother freedom start ringing her bell And it will feel like the whole wide word is raining down on you Brought to you courtesy of the red, white and blue Only with the distraction and rage brought about by completely discrediting the Dixie Chicks and disparaging the feminine side of the genre (which includes a lot of sensitive male artists singing about their dogs and lost loves too), could a song about lynching make it to number one. :rolleyes: Yes, even in country music. As far as Black Eyed Peas go, I dislike their music, but I’ll offer up tangent Eminem in the plea that it’s rap, not race. Since when has anyone cared that Eminem is _unpatriotic_? And yet… _White America_ Sent to lead the march right up to the steps of Congress, And piss on the lawns of the White House, To burn the casket and replace It with a parental advisory sticker, To spit liquor in the faces of in this democracy of hypocrisy. Fuck you Ms. Cheney Fuck you Tipper Gore I’ve never been to a concert where the artists weren’t embarassed by the current sitting president, so I’m standing by the scapegoat theory. … What? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/35 "2004-03-12T21:08:00Z")
> [@](#): > > “Black people are stupid.” > > That’s racist. > > "The same statement could have applied to, say, white people. So I don’t see the ‘racism’ in that. The main difference is that white people can’t be black. While males can be blond bubble-heads. (DUH!) ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/36 "2004-03-12T21:13:31Z")
> [@gex gex](#): > > [aside]Also, can anyone explain the Ronald Reagan reference in these lyrics: > “Before bin Laden got Manhattan to blow, > Before Ronald Reagan got Manhattan to blow,”[/aside] Since it seems everyone seems to think this is GD maybe this should get moved. But I’ll take a shot at this since no one else has. My guess it’s got something to do with cocaine, Reagan was the 80s, popular drug of the 80s was coke, I might be wrong but I think there are some theories about cocaine and Nicarauga or something. Maybe someone else can build on this? ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/37 "2004-03-12T21:46:31Z")
Today’s definition of irony, ladies and germs, from Chastain86: **Internet users flaming each other on a message board over the meaning of a song that, in essence, tells people to be nice to each other.** :rolleyes: I’m glad some of you aren’t responsible for conducting land wars in Asia. Be nice and settle down, for Christ’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2004, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/38 "2004-03-12T22:48:36Z")
> [@Chastain86](#): > > Today’s definition of irony, ladies and germs, from Chastain86: > **Internet users flaming each other on a message board over the meaning of a song that, in essence, tells people to be nice to each other.** :rolleyes: > I’m glad some of you aren’t responsible for conducting land wars in Asia. Be nice and settle down, for Christ’s sake. I’m not seeing anybody flaming anyone in this thread about any song. Oh,wait-- **gex gex** did accuse **Dogface** of blithering. Mostly it’s about why The Dixie Chicks raised some people’s ire while BEP did not. I think my reasons (racism and anti-womanism) have been shown to be false. It had more to do with audience, expectations and the presentation of the (supposedly) offensive message. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/39 "2004-03-13T04:44:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Beer for my Horses > > Grandpappy told my pappy’ back in my day’ son > A man had to answer for the wicked that he done > Take all the rope in Texas > Find a tall oak tree’ round up all of them bad boys > Hang them high in the street for all the people to see that I thought that was Willie Nelson. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741/40 "2004-03-13T05:13:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I thought that was Willie Nelson. It was Toby Keith and Willie Nelson doing a duet. In the video, they formed a posse and everything! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-call-racism-or-maybe-feminism-dixie-chicks-and-black-eyed-peas/233741.md?page=3)