# I can has Neanderthal genes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 6, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552 "2010-05-06T21:00:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/1 "2010-05-06T21:00:02Z")
We’ve bounced back and forth between thinking early Modern Humans and Neanderthals either did or did not interbreed (and produce fertile offspring). So [the latest study](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100506/ap_on_sc/us_sci_neanderthal_genes) says we did. Question, and I’m hoping to get input from our posters who are really knowledgeable in the subject: Just how significant is this latest data? Is it likely to stick, or is it just the latest volley in the ping-pong match? The geneticists seem to indicate that this study was extremely thorough, but one has to wonder what alternate explanations there might be. For the record, I’m quite happy to be part Neanderthal. I had a hard time believing that the two populations were unable and unwilling to interbreed successfully. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/2 "2010-05-06T22:25:02Z")
“…there is at least some cave man biology in most of us”? I can’t wait until the ad agency for GEICO read this headline. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/3 "2010-05-06T22:27:28Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > “…there is at least some cave man biology in most of us”? I can’t wait until the ad agency for GEICO read this headline. Too bad news like this doesn’t have a wide enough audience. GEICO could have and ad with some copy writer apologizing to his “cousin” about all the Caveman jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/4 "2010-05-07T04:44:30Z")
It’s amazing that more people care about the Kardashians than about this. I want to know the answer to the question too. As an enthusiast of prehistoric anthropology I was rather surprised by this news; I wouldn’t have bet on it. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/5 "2010-05-07T05:13:44Z")
The important thing is, how will this news affect Kim Kardashian? ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/6 "2010-05-07T09:16:30Z")
She’ll continue dating Neatherthals instead of me. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/7 "2010-05-07T11:52:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Question, and I’m hoping to get input from our posters who are really knowledgeable in the subject: Just how significant is this latest data? Is it likely to stick, or is it just the latest volley in the ping-pong match? The geneticists seem to indicate that this study was extremely thorough, but one has to wonder what alternate explanations there might be. It seems that it’s going to stick to me. For one thing, the genes we share are only found in populations outside Africa, which can only be explained by interbreeding after a group of Homo sapiens had moved out from there. As someone commented elsewhere on the interwebs: "this definitely applies to football fans ". ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/8 "2010-05-07T12:07:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Question, and I’m hoping to get input from our posters who are really knowledgeable in the subject: Just how significant is this latest data? Is it likely to stick, or is it just the latest volley in the ping-pong match? I’d say it’s likely to stick - genetics has advanced a lot in recent years, and their methodology sounds much more inclusive than earlier studies. > [@](#): > > The geneticists seem to indicate that this study was extremely thorough, but one has to wonder what alternate explanations there might be. Hard to think of any - random drift wouldn’t give you the correlation they’re claiming - I mean, 3% is a lot. Well, at least half my ancestor population is likely Neanderthal-free. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/9 "2010-05-07T15:09:42Z")
I wonder what this will do to our sense of what the [Identical Ancestor Point](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identical_ancestors_point) is for _H. sapiens_. If the last Neanderthals died out ~25k years ago, it can’t be earlier than that, so good-bye 5-15k years ago as the time period. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/10 "2010-05-07T15:30:43Z")
I guess this opens up the whole question about the taxonomic validity of _H. neanderthalensis_, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/11 "2010-05-07T15:43:34Z")
The OP’s article has [this link to Science](http://www.sciencemag.org/special/neandertal/)–with lots of interesting information on the latest version of our family tree. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/12 "2010-05-07T15:53:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I guess this opens up the whole question about the taxonomic validity of _H. neanderthalensis_, too. Aren’t they called H. sapiens neanderthalensis nowadays? ---
**Author:** ![KlondikeGeoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@KlondikeGeoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KlondikeGeoff)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/13 "2010-05-07T16:25:57Z")
Now wen my wife refers to me as a Neanderthal, I can retaliate that she shares the genes. Speaking of that, do y’all know how to tall a male chromosome from a female? Just pull down their genes and look. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/14 "2010-05-07T16:41:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We’ve bounced back and forth between thinking early Modern Humans and Neanderthals either did or did not interbreed (and produce fertile offspring). > > So [the latest study](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100506/ap_on_sc/us_sci_neanderthal_genes) says we did. > > Question, and I’m hoping to get input from our posters who are really knowledgeable in the subject: Just how significant is this latest data? Is it likely to stick, or is it just the latest volley in the ping-pong match? The geneticists seem to indicate that this study was extremely thorough, but one has to wonder what alternate explanations there might be. > > For the record, I’m quite happy to be part Neanderthal. I had a hard time believing that the two populations were unable and unwilling to interbreed successfully. Gee, I got roundly trounced here a couple years ago when I stated that I was certain that we had neanderthal genes in our cro-magnon woodpile. I know at least one guy who you could stand next to a skeleton in a museum and people would think he was a clean shaven modern dressed display unit :rolleyes: Same brow ridge, same short leg/long arm/long torso, same heavy musculature. Back in college a bunch of us used to call him Og because of the neanderthal look he had going on. And yes, he could play the Geico caveman with minimal makeup. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/15 "2010-05-07T16:41:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I guess this opens up the whole question about the taxonomic validity of _H. neanderthalensis_, too. I think that as our knowledge of population genetics improves, we’ll discover that the species concept is naturally very fuzzy. The debate won’t be settled until we have more information on interspecies gene transfers in general. Perhaps the 1-4% Neanderthal contribution to modern non-Africans is below the typical crossover for apes (or primates, or mammals, …). Then the separate species label might be justifiably. Or, perhaps it is much higher than usual and Neanderthals were a very distinct race of H. sapiens. I’m eager to see how taxonomy evolves as we get more and more genetics information. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/16 "2010-05-07T17:05:58Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > And yes, he could play the Geico caveman with minimal makeup. Hey, Ron Perlman made a buck or two off it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/17 "2010-05-07T17:20:13Z")
Real question here: All the artists reconstruction of a neaderthal are always male. What did the females look like? Were they hot? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/18 "2010-05-07T17:29:25Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > Were they hot? No, but they’d beat the snot out of you if you didn’t answer “No” to “Does this hide make me look fat?” quickly enough. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/19 "2010-05-07T17:31:52Z")
Anyone up for a little Pleistocene hanky-panky? ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552/20 "2010-05-07T17:40:09Z")
They say that you couldn’t tell a neanderthal in a suit passing you by from a regular person in a suit passing you by, so I am inclined to think there was at least one neanderthal hottie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-can-has-neanderthal-genes/538552.md?page=2)