# I can't be the only one who saw Hunger Games and realized (Spoliers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 6, 2014, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011 "2014-01-06T09:32:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/61 "2014-01-07T21:52:10Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Face it, no dystopian world makes any sense. 1984 had two-way viewscreens for every household that were on all the time. And each viewscreen had someone watching it at all times. Talk about impossible. As prescient as he was, Orwell couldn’t have foreseen facial recognition (and related) software. (Today, the automated processing of a video feed from every household, with subversive conduct to be flagged, is much easier to envision.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/62 "2014-01-07T21:56:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > How far up in the tree was she, and how much cover did she have? In the book, I seem to recall her being way, way up in the tree, and shooting straight up past a bunch of branches is not a simple shot. In the movie, it looked like most of her cover was from hiding behind the trunk, which could be foiled simply by walking around the tree. But I may have missed a clearer establishing shot where she was obscured by branches. It still seemed like the other kids gave up way too easy, though. > [@](#): > > At that point, did they know about the fireballs? Also, while I can see the game designers preventing their own fireballs from causing forest fires, I suspect they’d be thrilled to see a bunch of dumbass game players burn to death in a fire of their own making. I think so - it was definitely after Katniss sets them off - she gets sent the burn salve from a backer while she’s up there. It seems likely, given the scale and quantity of the explosions, that the other contestants know about it. Also, I assumed that the fireballs were the normal way of keeping players in the area, so everyone would be aware of them from seeing the other games. > [@](#): > > And if she’s way up in the tree, there’s a chance that the smoke would actually be worse on the ground near the fire than it’d be way up where a breeze might disperse it. True, but I’d think it’s at least worth a shot, given that their default plan was, “Sit around until she starves to death.” ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/63 "2014-01-07T21:59:03Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The world of the Hunger Games, as laid out in the books, doesn’t make a lick of sense in realistic terms. The Capitol, as you note, has the holographic tech and the hovercraft and the ability to grow mutant dog creatures in, at most, weeks, and all the rest of the super-science stuff. I dunno, is it that far removed from North Korea? A small cadre in power leading wealthy lives while the rest of the country lives in grinding poverty. In the meantime they’re trying to acquire atomic weapons, which isn’t easy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/64 "2014-01-07T21:59:49Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Face it, no dystopian world makes any sense. 1984 had two-way viewscreens for every household that were on all the time. And each viewscreen had someone watching it at all times. Talk about impossible. It doesn’t have to be one watcher per watched household - one guy could monitor a dozen households simultaneously. Not _perfectly_, but enough to put the fear of Big Brother into people. Actually, do we ever have objective proof that the two way monitoring works in the novel? If everyone thinks it does, then it mostly doesn’t matter if it actually works, which is just the sort of controlling mindscrew that IngSoc specializes in. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/65 "2014-01-07T22:01:49Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > The Careers didn’t take the bow because they were good at it. They took the bow because they knew Katniss was excellent with it and wanted to deny it to her. It would make more sense just to break the bow, then to cart around dead weight just to deny it to one player. > [@](#): > > Forest fires are not a concern is you are the Game Masters, more so if you are IN it. Just like the Mutties and the killer wasps and … Sure, but my point was, the players could have seen those enormous fireballs, and thought, “Well, if those didn’t start a forest fire, nothing I can do will start one, either.” ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/66 "2014-01-08T05:50:03Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > The Careers didn’t take the bow because they were good at it. They took the bow because they knew Katniss was excellent with it and wanted to deny it to her. Did they know that? The way I remember it, they made sure no one ever saw Katniss with a bow, or downplaying her skill with one - only the judges saw how good she was. Isn’t that why the careers were wondering aloud how she got the highest ranking? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/67 "2014-01-08T06:01:18Z")
**epbrown01** is right. No one except Peeta, Haymitch and the judges\* knew Katniss even knew what a bow was, let alone know how to use one, let alone be an expert shot. (\* and Gale, and those she sold her meat to, like Peeta’s father) ---
**Author:** ![citizenzen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@citizenzen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/citizenzen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/68 "2014-01-08T06:04:55Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Well…if we’re talking about plot-holes… Giant skin pustules simply wipe off in water I guess that’s not really a plot hole. But it bugged the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/69 "2014-01-08T06:30:41Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > **epbrown01** is right. No one except Peeta, Haymitch and the judges\* knew Katniss even knew what a bow was, let alone know how to use one, let alone be an expert shot. > > (\* and Gale, and those she sold her meat to, like Peeta’s father) Lenny Kravitz, his friend, the woman from 30 Rock and every single person who was at the party where the apple got shot know. and the President and whoever else was told. no…I have to believe that Katnisses ability with a bow spread like wildfire after her ‘little demonstration’ And even if the Gamesmaster and the President and every one else at the ‘party’ didn’t say anything…I don’t know why Section 12’s ‘handler’ wouldn’t say anything. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/70 "2014-01-08T06:54:02Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Lenny Kravitz, his friend, the woman from 30 Rock and every single person who was at the party where the apple got shot know. and the President and whoever else was told. That wasn’t a party - it was the final demo for the judges and game-master, who definitely wouldn’t tell other districts a player’s strengths, for all sorts of reasons. Cinna, Effie and so on wouldn’t release the info - it would damage District 12’s chances and thus their own careers. Remember that Effie likely hadn’t had a winning team her entire career due to be assigned District 12, and Cinna was a newbie trying to make a name for himself - and he liked Katniss. Nope, no other district knew she was lethal with a bow. But her proficiency is likely why there was one at the Cornucopia, since making her more lethal would be good for the show. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/71 "2014-01-08T07:56:19Z")
> [@simster](#): > > - secondly, for her to ‘win’, at some point she has to face people from the other districts. Technically, no. Didn’t they say that the two tributes from one of the districts won by camouflage and hiding until everyone else died? When the arena itself is deadly (toxic fog, fireballs, vicious baboons, a giant flood), everyone might just die by other means. True, that might take a while, but it is a strategy. Not necessarily one that the gamemaster wants. > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > No, Zebra is correct. God only knows what you thought I was saying. What is a “big ol white moon face” and what’s wrong with it, other than probably needing some cover in the woods? > [@j666](#): > > Damn, kind of ruthless and blood-thirsty for a Cat Lady, aren’t you? Well, she is a _Crazy_ Cat Lady. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Even though the careers allegedly dominate the games and “almost always” win, they still managed to come up with one living male winner and one living female winner from each district out of a field of 59 living winners ( the 59 number is from the book BTW). I always thought that it was completely mathematically improbable that they could scrape up all these winners from the outlying districts but the incompetence of the careers goes a long way towards explaining this. Maybe they didn’t win THAT often. It would be inconvenient plot-wise for there only to be 4 or 5 districts represented in that round of games. “Yes, for the 75th Games, we decided to draw from the existing pool of winners. So Districts 4, 6, 7, 8, and 11 don’t send any tributes this time. Bummer.” ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/72 "2014-01-08T08:26:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Actually, do we ever have objective proof that the two way monitoring works in the novel? If everyone thinks it does, then it mostly doesn’t matter if it actually works, which is just the sort of controlling mindscrew that IngSoc specializes in. If I remember right, one of the watchers tells Winston that he’s slacking off during his morning exercises. And you’re right, it doesn’t have to be a 1:1 ratio between watchers and viewscreens, but even watching a dozen viewscreens at a time requires an army of watchers. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/73 "2014-01-08T08:32:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In case you guys missed it, there’s a [follow-up to the review.](http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/04/the_hunger_games_is_sexist_fai.html) > > I think my favorite part in the second is when the writer wonders why Alice from the _Resident Evil_ movies isn’t considered a feminist icon. Unsurprisingly, she thinks it’s because of sexism. I’m more inclined to think that it’s because the _Resident Evil_ movies _aren’t very good._ That might be a (big) part of it, but I don’t think it helps that they just made her up for the movie (she doesn’t even exist in the games the moves are based on) and that she’s just one huge super duper Mary Sue. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/74 "2014-01-08T09:09:19Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > That might be a (big) part of it, but I don’t think it helps that they just made her up for the movie (she doesn’t even exist in the games the moves are based on) and that she’s just one huge super duper Mary Sue. Exactly. Alice is turned into a female Terminator at the end of the first movie and has stayed that through 95% of the sequels. True feminist action icons, like Ripley or Katniss, are usually more realistic. Also, she doesn’t even have a name in the first movie. “Alice” is actually a credits in-joke/retcon. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/75 "2014-01-08T13:45:22Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Technically, no. Didn’t they say that the two tributes from one of the districts won by camouflage and hiding until everyone else died? When the arena itself is deadly (toxic fog, fireballs, vicious baboons, a giant flood), everyone might just die by other means. True, that might take a while, but it is a strategy. Not necessarily one that the gamemaster wants. They then show the other tribute ‘finally’ taking the rock to the last remaining tribute’s head - so its unlikely that thru the course of the games you won’t encounter atleast ‘one other’ tribute - I’ll have to rewatch, but I took the statement to mean ‘they hid until they had no other choice’. It just occurred to me that the Capital residents are probably taught that the districts are nothing but murderous savages - so having a tribute win ‘peacefully’ is really a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/76 "2014-01-08T14:23:02Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Face it, no dystopian world makes any sense. 1984 had two-way viewscreens for every household that were on all the time. And each viewscreen had someone watching it at all times. Talk about impossible. Orwell actually has Winston mention in his thoughts-as-narration that nobody knew when, exactly, they were being watched. So in fact they weren’t always watching you. The threat was enough. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/77 "2014-01-09T03:19:10Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > It would be inconvenient plot-wise for there only to be 4 or 5 districts represented in that round of games. “Yes, for the 75th Games, we decided to draw from the existing pool of winners. So Districts 4, 6, 7, 8, and 11 don’t send any tributes this time. Bummer.” > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Even though the careers allegedly dominate the games and “almost always” win, they still managed to come up with one living male winner and one living female winner from each district out of a field of 59 living winners ( the 59 number is from the book BTW). I always thought that it was completely mathematically improbable that they could scrape up all these winners from the outlying districts but the incompetence of the careers goes a long way towards explaining this. Maybe they didn’t win THAT often. This assumes that there really was a Special Instruction for the 75th Games. There is no reason to believe that and good reason not to. Katniss was becoming a popular symbol of rebellion. The President, needing to get rid of her, created the special instructions as a Ploy. If there hadn’t been enough surviving Tributes, he would have come up with another mechanism for getting her back in the Arena. New Plot-hole: Why, if he wanted to kill Katniss, didn’t he just, you know, have her killed? In another mine explosion, for example. One, he needed her to fail to discredit her; two, her “accidental death” would be assumed a Government Conspiracy and still trigger a rebellion; three, he was an Evil Villain with Minions and must have complicated scenario; and finally, she was really starting to piss him off. (This isn’t just analysis; it was in the book and touched on in the movie.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/78 "2014-01-09T04:21:54Z")
> [@j666](#): > > This assumes that there really was a Special Instruction for the 75th Games. There is no reason to believe that and good reason not to. > > Katniss was becoming a popular symbol of rebellion. The President, needing to get rid of her, created the special instructions as a Ploy. If there hadn’t been enough surviving Tributes, he would have come up with another mechanism for getting her back in the Arena. I basically agree with you here, but I think the “all Tributes will be past victors” scheme was about more than just getting rid of Katniss. There were other past victors who were likely considered to be potentially troublesome\*, so sending them back into the arena would be a convenient way to wipe out a bunch of them at once. It would also serve as a warning to all the other living victors as well as future victors that they only have special status as long as the Capital feels like granting it to them, and that they should never forget who has the real power. \*This is only briefly alluded to in the movie, but in the book _Catching Fire_ it’s made clear that Finnick knows a lot of dark and dirty secrets about important people in the Capital. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/79 "2014-01-09T04:38:57Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I basically agree with you here, but I think the “all Tributes will be past victors” scheme was about more than just getting rid of Katniss. There were other past victors who were likely considered to be potentially troublesome\*, so sending them back into the arena would be a convenient way to wipe out a bunch of them at once. It would also serve as a warning to all the other living victors as well as future victors that they only have special status as long as the Capital feels like granting it to them, and that they should never forget who has the real power. > > \*This is only briefly alluded to in the movie, but in the book _Catching Fire_ it’s made clear that Finnick knows a lot of dark and dirty secrets about important people in the Capital. Yes, but it was definitely two birds with one stone, and Katniss was the bigger bird. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011/80 "2014-01-10T00:51:33Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Yes, but it was definitely two birds with one stone, and Katniss was the bigger bird. Oh certainly, and if doing an “All Stars” run of the Games hadn’t been possible then the alternate plan presumably would have been focused on eliminating Katniss as a threat. Other potentially subversive victors could be dealt with later. But sending a bunch of them back into the arena must have struck Snow as a pretty tidy plan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-be-the-only-one-who-saw-hunger-games-and-realized-spoliers/678011.md?page=5)