# I can't believe I'm starting a thread about Mary Jo Kopechne but... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 30, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235 "2009-08-30T05:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/1 "2009-08-30T05:38:58Z")
… It’s not really about her, but about her memory. A woman dies in a stupid accident. 40 years later, we still know her name, which means she still gets mentioned by the press and strangers alike, and I’m sure her family hears about it. My husband, my dad, friends, neighbors, grandparents, they’ve all died without that sort of fanfare. I don’t get their deaths shoved in my face, but I also don’t get to know that they are remembered, even if only shallowly. You’re the survivor. Which is better? Does it make a person’s death worse if it becomes a political football or otherwise famous, or does it offer a tiny bit of consolation that at least she’s not forgotten? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/2 "2009-08-30T06:44:38Z")
I also ponder the fact that after a certain number of years, nobody will remember that I have lived . . . but at least I have not died young, the way that poor woman did. I think, to her family, no amount of “fame” can compensate for the fact that her life was cut short. Life is for the living, and hers should have been a lot longer. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/3 "2009-08-30T07:23:12Z")
Given the choice between losing a loved one in a famous tragedy and having them around for a long time, I’ll take the second one every time. I don’t know anything about the Kopechne family, but even if they considered Ted Kennedy their daughter’s killer, I doubt they drew any consolation from hearing her name used over and over for decades as a weapon by people who hated Kennedy and cared about her only because of what he’d done. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/4 "2009-08-30T13:30:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t know anything about the Kopechne family, but even if they considered Ted Kennedy their daughter’s killer… There’s little question they shared the common belief that he was. > [@](#): > > I doubt they drew any consolation from hearing her name used over and over for decades as a weapon by people who hated Kennedy and cared about her only because of what he’d done. I’m not so sure. If a prominent figure is responsible for the death of someone close to you and is then able to avoid the normal legal consequences of his actions - and can never bring himself even to apologize - I think seeing him frequently reminded of his actions would bring some measure of satisfaction. And note that Mary Jo is and long has been regularly mentioned by more than a few with favorable views of Teddy. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/5 "2009-08-30T13:32:20Z")
I agree with **Marley23** , if that was my loved one, I’d rather they fell off the radar screen than have it rehashed again and again, by people who never knew or cared for my loved one. To have her memory used as a battering ram, for 4 decades, would piss me off. Another thing to consider is that, she was connected to this family and while I don’t know for sure, I wouldn’t be surprised to discover her, and her family, shared the same political leanings and, quite possibly, deeply respected the Kennedy family, and their model of public service. If that’s true, wouldn’t it be all the worse to have her death used to pound down and hold back someone who’s goals you shared, politically? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/6 "2009-08-30T14:32:49Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > There’s little question they shared the common belief that he was. For the purpose of this discussion, I’d like to know if that is actually true. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/7 "2009-08-30T14:45:37Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I agree with **Marley23** , if that was my loved one, I’d rather they fell off the radar screen than have it rehashed again and again, by people who never knew or cared for my loved one. > > To have her memory used as a battering ram, for 4 decades, would piss me off. That’s how I feel. People aren’t actually mourning her death, or celebrating her life. They’re using her memory for their own agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/8 "2009-08-30T18:56:46Z")
It really is wierd what gets traction in the public consciousness. By the same token, every single person travelling by air in the US must remove their shoes due to the actions of one Richard Reed. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/9 "2009-08-31T01:23:57Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > That’s how I feel. People aren’t actually mourning her death, or celebrating her life. They’re using her memory for their own agenda. I think it’s more complicated than that. I worshipped Ted Kennedy in the summer of 1969 and didn’t give a shit about Mary Jo Kopechne. I kept, or rather developed, an open mind, and came up with a new way of seeing things. If I point out inaccuracies or misleading statements by the people who worship the Kennedys in 2009, is that my agenda? Am I allowed to say that it was more than an accident? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/10 "2009-08-31T01:59:02Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > That’s how I feel. People aren’t actually mourning her death, or celebrating her life. They’re using her memory for their own agenda. The agenda is that he used the power of his status and wealth to get away with a crime. It’s not a function of politics. The Kennedy’s were loved on a national level. He went on to do great things. Instead of being the greatest politician of the 20th century he’s the politician who got away with negligent homicide. I’m glad he was able to rise above it but it doesn’t excuse what happened. ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/11 "2009-08-31T02:31:59Z")
How about having such a death become the basis of a [novella](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Water_%28novella%29)? \*Black Water \* is a compelling piece of writing. I’m spoilering this, in case someone hasn’t read it and wants to, but each chapter ends with the words: “As the black water filled her lungs, and she died.” :shudder: I can’t imagine Mary Jo Kopechne’s family’s reaction to this work. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/12 "2009-08-31T02:40:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I doubt they drew any consolation from hearing her name used over and over for decades as a weapon by people who hated Kennedy and cared about her only because of what he’d done. Yes, it would be much better for them to realize nobody cared at all about her, least of all the Kennedys and their worshippers, and the justice denied for her death. They should’ve just moved on. Jesus fucking Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/13 "2009-08-31T02:40:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Instead of being the greatest politician of the 20th century he’s the politician who got away with negligent homicide. I’m glad he was able to rise above it but it doesn’t excuse what happened. Who said it did? > [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > Yes, it would be much better for them to realize nobody cared at all about her, least of all the Kennedys and their worshippers, and the justice denied for her death. They should’ve just moved on. > > Jesus fucking Christ. That’s just it – most of them seem to care more about using her as partisan weapon against an opponent. They don’t seem to care about “justice denied for her death.” Or her memory. They just want to use her death as something with which to bash their opponent. I’m sure her family is delighted about THAT. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/14 "2009-08-31T03:07:01Z")
> [@Plan\_B](#): > > I think it’s more complicated than that. I worshipped Ted Kennedy in the summer of 1969 and didn’t give a shit about Mary Jo Kopechne. I kept, or rather developed, an open mind, and came up with a new way of seeing things. If I point out inaccuracies or misleading statements by the people who worship the Kennedys in 2009, is that my agenda? Am I allowed to say that it was more than an accident? You’re allowed to believe and say whatever you want to, regarding the circumstances of her death, but as I said, you are neither mourning her, or celebrating her life. It’s not about her as an individual. She’s just a talking point, now, and that’s not something that I, as a survivor would want for my loved one. > [@Magiver](#): > > The agenda is that he used the power of his status and wealth to get away with a crime. It’s not a function of politics. The Kennedy’s were loved on a national level. He went on to do great things. > > Instead of being the greatest politician of the 20th century he’s the politician who got away with negligent homicide. I’m glad he was able to rise above it but it doesn’t excuse what happened. How did you read into that quote anything about politics or excuses? At this point, both of them are dead. The majority of people who bring her up aren’t trying to set things a little more right to make sure that this doesn’t happen again, as a way to get a little justice for her. Mary Jo, the person, has been lost in all this. People aren’t “keeping her memory alive” as suggested in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/15 "2009-08-31T03:33:36Z")
> [@freckafree](#): > > How about having such a death become the basis of a [novella](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Water_%28novella%29)? > > \*Black Water \* is a compelling piece of writing. I’m spoilering this, in case someone hasn’t read it and wants to, but each chapter ends with the words: “As the black water filled her lungs, and she died.” > > :shudder: I can’t imagine Mary Jo Kopechne’s family’s reaction to this work. Eh. Joyce Carol Oates has done worse. How do you think the Ramsey family (Burke in particular) felt about My Sister My Love? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/16 "2009-08-31T04:26:41Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You’re the survivor. Which is better? Does it make a person’s death worse if it becomes a political football or otherwise famous, or does it offer a tiny bit of consolation that at least she’s not forgotten? Suppose this isn’t about Mary Jo Kopechne. What if you’re a family member of Emmett Till? Or Medgar Evers? Or Chaney, Goodman, and Schwermer? Is it better that those deaths became famous? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/17 "2009-08-31T04:27:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For the purpose of this discussion, I’d like to know if that is actually true. Cite? Do you seriously entertain the possibility that the Kopechnes didn’t believe Teddy was responsible? Here’s a [quote] ([Death at Chappaquiddick - Richard L. Tedrow, Thomas Tedrow - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=lRaO_JTo_14C&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=joseph+kopechne&source=bl&ots=YwfTYtnug-&sig=Z9x5QuG3tyEXrYyiruWNhvb0iD0&hl=en&ei=0U2bSt-WEMPJlAe6wYmuBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#v=onepage&q=joseph%20kopechne&f=false)) from Mary Jo’ father (given 10 years after her death): > [@Joseph Kopechne](#): > > And if he does run he will lose - and he will lose because of Chappaquiddick. People will not forgive him for that. I know I haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/18 "2009-08-31T12:27:48Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > It really is wierd what gets traction in the public consciousness. By the same token, every single person travelling by air in the US must remove their shoes due to the actions of one Richard Reed. I invoke his memory every time I fly. I cordially wish him an extra maggot in his stew. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-im-starting-a-thread-about-mary-jo-kopechne-but/508235/19 "2009-08-31T16:21:34Z")
[quote=“Xema, post:17, topic:508235”] Do you seriously entertain the possibility that the Kopechnes didn’t believe Teddy was responsible? Here’s a > [@](#): > > ([Death at Chappaquiddick - Richard L. Tedrow, Thomas Tedrow - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=lRaO_JTo_14C&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=joseph+kopechne&source=bl&ots=YwfTYtnug-&sig=Z9x5QuG3tyEXrYyiruWNhvb0iD0&hl=en&ei=0U2bSt-WEMPJlAe6wYmuBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#v=onepage&q=joseph%20kopechne&f=false)) from Mary Jo’ father (given 10 years after her death): I’d encourage people to actually read the linked interview. It addresses the OP’s question rather well.