# I can't believe you're still talking about "The Matrix" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983 "2003-05-13T16:37:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/1 "2003-05-13T16:37:42Z")
Okay, I saw the film and I liked it. Quite a bit, actually. It was a lot of fun, extremely different than most movies I’d seen at the time, and had a decent cast. With the two sequels coming out this year, I’m pretty anxious to see them. In fact, I’m extremely anxious. I bought the DVD last month, and will be getting my free ticket in the mail any time now. I also like reading discussions about the various theories people have come up with regarding the “people as batteries” explanation given, as well as other things related to the movie. But in every single one of those threads, some jackass is bound to come in and say “I can’t believe you’re still talking about a 4 year old movie - get a life.” He’ll then go on to cite 3 or 4 relatively obscure movies that “The Matrix” is inferior to, or borrowed special effects techniques from, as if that is somehow proof that the movie sucks. Another favorite line of this type of jerk is “that incredibly false premise completely ruined the movie for me, as I am intellectually superior and expect nothing but the finest in scientific discourse to entertain me”. Ya know what? I don’t care. Neither does anyone else in those threads who are obviously there to discuss, not to disparrage. If you’d take one fucking minute to read the thread, you’ll see plenty of people who are fans of the movie who will also regard the “humans as batteries” idea as bogus, and offer very legitimate alternative ideas, usually backed up by secondary sources. If you’d just get your head out of the ass of your high horse, you might actually gain a reason to stop masturbating on your grade school report cards and see the sequel this weekend. But seriously, fuck off, assholes. You’re there simply to make waves and make yourself feel better. For alternative “Survivor” theme, replace “The Matrix” with “Survivor” and “humans as batteries” with “reality television”. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/2 "2003-05-13T16:58:02Z")
I can’t believe you’re talking about people talking about people talking about people talking about a 4-year-old movie. This is the 21st Century! We should be complaining and bemoaning the innacuracies in films that _haven’t come out yet_. Get with the times, people! ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/3 "2003-05-13T17:07:27Z")
Like when the agent jumps on the car. Man that looks soooooooo fake. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/4 "2003-05-13T19:08:16Z")
Fair enough, but you know what ticks me off? People claiming the “people are batteries” thing is a McGuffin. It’s not a fucking McGuffin–it’s technobabble. The McGuffin is, in the words of Hitchcock, “the thing the spies are after.” A less colloquial defiinition is “A device that exists purely to move the plot along,” which is probably what causes the confusion. But, to be perfectly clear, here is a list of movie McGuffins: The Maltese Falcon The Ark of the Covenant (from **Raiders of the Lost Ark** \_ “Government Secrets” (from **North by Northwest** ) The contents of Marcellus Wallace’s briefcase (from **Pulp Fiction** ) Butch’s father’s war watch–you know, the one on the kangaroo (also from **Pulp Fiction** ) Frank Abagnale, Jr. (from **Catch Me If You Can** ) The “humans are batteries” thing is technobabble like the deflector shields, warp drives, and tachyon pulse emitters from **Star Trek** , Dr. Who’s sonic screwdriver or reversals of polarity of practically everything. It’s not the thing that defines the character’s motiviations, it’s just a supporting detail. So when you Maxtrix-heads are defending that particular bit of stupidity, please call it by it’s proper name. We fight ignorance here, remember? -vibrotronica, who just had to get that off his chest. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/5 "2003-05-13T19:28:47Z")
vibro, you’ve just proved that you are exactly what I’m ranting against. Pull your fingers out of your ears and actually read the entire threads next time, m’kay? FTR, I’ve YET to hear “people as batteries” mentioned as a McGuffin. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/6 "2003-05-13T19:50:50Z")
The thing that still annoys me is the people as batteries thing. Damn people, it’s a movie get over it. If you can’t or if it bothers you that much that you can’t enjoy the movie then go watch something else. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/7 "2003-05-13T20:26:41Z")
In the current CS thread on the Matrix: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s5f5bd73117563c32d1390e58ae8b0414&threadid=183306](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s5f5bd73117563c32d1390e58ae8b0414&threadid=183306) we see this exchange: **Skott** : > [@](#): > > First of all, the reason for the enslavement of humanity (i.e. electrical power), is what you call a McGuffin. To be sure, one of the largest I’ve seen, but a McGuffin nonetheless. The matrix of humanity is essentially an excuse for the Wachowski to create original superheroes that can defy the normal laws of physics without the need for the normal method of mutation through radiation or whatever. To which **Wumpus** replied: > [@](#): > > As for the “it’s just a MacGuffin” justification: if people are distracted by the MacGuffin and start saying, “that doesn’t make any sense!” then the MacGuffin has failed in its purpose. The MacGuffin exists to move the story along, not to call attention to itself. **Archernar** then joined the fray with: > [@](#): > > Is that so? I’m not very familiar with the concept of a MacGuffin, but I always thought one of the archetypal examples was the contents of the briefcase in Pulp Fiction. And isn’t “what’s in the briefcase” one of the most-asked questions about that film? It certainly seemed to call attention to itself. **Wumpus** wasn’t done yet: > [@](#): > > Achernar: The briefcase in Pulp Fiction isn’t a proper MacGuffin precisely because the audience leaves the movie wondering What It Really Means. > > To Hitchcock, who originated the term, “the MacGuffin was nothing”–meaning, the MacGuffin was just a plot device to get people interested in the characters’ problems. > > His favorite MacGuffin was the microfilm with the secret plans in North by Northwest. He never bothered to explain what was on the microfilm or why it was so important, but the audience never cared. They were too busy worrying about what was going to happen to Cary Grant or Eva Marie Saint. This all ties in to the exchange in this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s5f5bd73117563c32d1390e58ae8b0414&threadid=182205&highlight=matrix](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s5f5bd73117563c32d1390e58ae8b0414&threadid=182205&highlight=matrix) in which the whole issue of McGuffinhood was debated by myself, **Archernar** , and **Archive Guy**. So maybe you’re the one who needs to read the fucking threads, **Munch** ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/8 "2003-05-13T20:32:07Z")
Fine, I’ll back down on that. But are you saying that’s the only explanation you’ve read? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/9 "2003-05-13T20:32:26Z")
In one of my writing classes I remember the instructor saying something to the effect that there are approximately 200 different storylines. Period. I don’t know if that exact number is true or not, but what does bug me is that people have such a fit over how this movie or that “sucks”. People, it’s Hollywood. You want art? Read Shakespeare, or go to Cannes, or Broadway or something. Sheesh, movie snobs. It’s almost like an oxymoron or something. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/10 "2003-05-13T20:49:11Z")
I just want to hear Neo say “Where I’m going, you can’t follow. What I’ve got to do, you can’t be any part of. Trinity, I’m no good at being noble, but it doesn’t take much to see that the problems of three little people don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you’ll understand that. Now, now… Here’s looking at you kid.” and then fly off into the sky. Hell, if Bogey had flown away like Superman, that movie would have been a whole lot better. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/11 "2003-05-13T20:54:18Z")
> [@](#): > > But are you saying that’s the only explanation you’ve read? Nope. I’m saying I’ve got a stick up my ass about the use of the term “McGuffin.” That’s all I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/12 "2003-05-13T21:02:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > **People, it’s Hollywood. You want art? Read Shakespeare, or go to Cannes, or Broadway or something.** Honey, Shakespeare _was_ Hollywood. He was Jerry Springer, too. ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/13 "2003-05-13T21:58:55Z")
The briefcase in _Pulp Fiction_ called attention to itself with Travolta’s opening it, being bathed in light and going “whoa…” A far better example of a ‘MacGuffin’ is the similar case in the DeNiro flick _Ronin_. It was only seen a few times, never opened, nobody hinted what was in it, and the storyline was such that you didn’t care- the character interaction was far more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/14 "2003-05-13T22:15:58Z")
There’s nothing wrong with having people as batteries! I’ve been running a potato clock off my left buttock since February! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/15 "2003-05-13T22:18:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVAA \* > \*\*Honey, Shakespeare _was_ Hollywood. He was Jerry Springer, too. \*\* Boy TVAA, you’d miss a point if it were a heat guided missile headed for that tiny little place you keep your “brains”. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/16 "2003-05-13T22:38:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*Boy TVAA, you’d miss a point if it were a heat guided missile headed for that tiny little place you keep your “brains”. \*\* How is he missing the point? Shakespeare _was_ Hollywood. His plays were not written as fodder for scholarly papers or to torture high school students; his plays were written as popular entertainments. You are setting up a false dichotomy between entertainment and art when they are often the same thing. Movies can be art–ever seen _Citizen Kane_ or _Les Enfants du Paradis_? OTOH, if someone is going to dis a fiilm, I’d like to hear a more trenchant and insightful critique than “it sucks,” which speaks more of the critic’s low intellect and cultural illiteracy than of the film’s flaws[sup]\*[/sup]. For example, saying that Kurosawa movies suck because they’re like in black and white or sumpin’ is not a valid analysis IMO, a criticism I’ve heard in real life. \*Unless the topic is any film with Tom Green ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/17 "2003-05-14T04:49:26Z")
What is the Matrix? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/18 "2003-05-14T05:21:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Another favorite line of this type of jerk is “that incredibly false premise completely ruined the movie for me, as I am intellectually superior and expect nothing but the finest in scientific discourse to entertain me”. My favorite is the people who say, “Boy, I couldn’t suspend my disbelief for THAT movie!” Whenever I hear that, I just picture that person spending the entire movie thinking of that oh-so-witty line, rather than actually enjoying the movie. Then there’re the people who say “Worst nine bucks I ever spent.” Y’know what? I doubt it. Frankly, I’m of the opinion that people who go out of their way to besmirch popular movies are doing so simply to be contrary. It’s an attention-seeker. “Look at me, I’m different!” Non-conformity for the sake of non-conformity, however, is the most immature attitude a person can have. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/19 "2003-05-14T05:41:00Z")
How come Matrix fanboys are always the rudest to those who don’t stand mouth agape at the intellectual monster that is the Matrix? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983/20 "2003-05-14T07:01:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*How is he missing the point? Shakespeare _was_ Hollywood. His plays were not written as fodder for scholarly papers or to torture high school students; his plays were written as popular entertainments. You are setting up a false dichotomy between entertainment and art when they are often the same thing. Movies can be art–ever seen _Citizen Kane_ or _Les Enfants du Paradis_? > > OTOH, if someone is going to dis a fiilm, I’d like to hear a more trenchant and insightful critique than “it sucks,” which speaks more of the critic’s low intellect and cultural illiteracy than of the film’s flaws[sup]\*[/sup]. For example, saying that Kurosawa movies suck because they’re like in black and white or sumpin’ is not a valid analysis IMO, a criticism I’ve heard in real life. > > \*Unless the topic is any film with Tom Green \*\* My point was don’t look to Hollywood to fulfill one’s need for “artsy fartsy” or whatever. I just threw Shakespeare in there off the cuff. And Shakespeare despite his popular entertainer rep in the old days, in this day and age, compared to Pamela Anderson movies or Jerry Springer is much more elegant than what you’d see in the movies for the most part. Anyway, I didn’t “just” use him as an example, hence my “or something” in my original post. My point, though I kept it very very short was that which you state above. I didn’t have time to elaborate at the time. But I knew someone like you would fill it out for me 🙂 Also TVAA is known for snotty remarks and a psuedo “hipper than thou” attitude. He purposely missed the rest of what I was saying and lit on the Shakespeare comment so that he could have something to be snotty about. Based on replies to other people he’s made it is pretty much his SOP. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-believe-youre-still-talking-about-the-matrix/174983.md?page=2)