# I can't deal with transgender anymore **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 16, 2024, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937 "2024-06-16T08:49:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/241 "2024-06-18T20:35:03Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > it’s kind of a waste of time to make every reader search, when the figure could have been included in your post. Agree. Also would have been very helpful to post one sentence telling us what the link was to. Like: “Here’s a CDC summary on risk behaviors for youth, including detailed data on suicide”. YRBS summary CDC tells me nothing since what YRBS stands for is very inner circle knowledge. All I know before clicking and opening is pdf-cdc-summary. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/242 "2024-06-18T20:36:12Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I clicked on the link, but when I used the find function to look for the word “suicide” in this 80+ page document, nothing came up. If you scroll down literally one page it does have an old-fashioned table of contents with page numbers 🙂. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/243 "2024-06-18T20:36:55Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > It was to @Darren_Garrison Oh, good, because I was afraid you thought I was implying something I really wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/244 "2024-06-18T21:09:12Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > The number of deaths by suicide that year (I don’t see a place where it’s broken down by gender) was listed as 9 per 100,000 population (or about a 0.01% rate). So there must be a bunch of suicide attempts that don’t actually work, Yes, but it’s worth noting the actual successful suicide rate in teens has increased as well. Since the initial numbers of kids who die by suicide were small to begin with, the current rate is still small even though it’s about tripled for teenage girls. I read today that the US Surgeon General published a rare op-ed about the youth mental health crisis. So someone’s paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/245 "2024-06-18T21:09:21Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I just don’t understand why it’s any sort of burden For myself, it is demeaning to me to be asked to act in a way I would not voluntarily choose to act. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/246 "2024-06-18T21:09:29Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > One of my children is a board certified, U of Michigan fellowship trained Child and Adolescent psychiatrist. They specialize in adolescents. What they quoted a year or two ago to me is 7%. > [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > I found [this paper from the CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/su/pdfs/su7201a6-H.pdf) about rates in 2021. Thank you. And I apologize for having spurred/contributed to this hijack. On these boards I don’t think I ought to have to apologize for being pedantic, but I still do not see a good definition of what constitutes a “suicide attempt.” Elsewhere, I googled from the CDC this: **A suicide attempt is when someone harms themselves with any intent to end their life, but they do not die as a result of their actions.** My personal preference would be that such efforts that do not require medical attention be called something else. Maybe “self harm as a cry for help.” Or a “suicidal gesture.” I readily acknowledge that such self harm ought to be taken seriously. But let’s not color society as so damned incompetent and helpless that we can’t even succeed in offing ourselves. When my nephew stepped in front of a train, THAT was a suicide attempt! I regularly review medical files where someone claims to have tried to kill themselves many, many times. I often think, “No you didn’t. If you had tried that many times, once you would have succeeded.” Which is not to say that they do not experience emotional illness and oughtn’t be treated with compassion. Instead, my inner mental conflict is with the word choice. But I’m not the person who gets t choose the words used. But, like I said, I apologize for encouraging/continuing the hijack. > [@Jay\_Z](#): > > People in general do not want further intrusions into their private business, when they aren’t necessary. Constantly being asked to show ID, show papers, state your name. Being required to declare pronouns can be seen as another intrusion of this sort. I’m trying to figure out if I understand this. My perspective is that if the vast majority of people DO NOT require unusual treatment - say, they have no dietary restrictions - they oughtn’t have to repeatedly announce that fact. Instead, it seems more reasonable that the folk who have food allergies, follow kosher, are lactose intolerant or have celiac disease…, make sure the food preparer know. Maybe folk are sying it is too intrusive to ask a trans person to say, “I prefer they/them.” Instead, we ought to adopt a situation where EVERYONE states their pronoun preferences more regularly, so trans folk won’t feel singled out or something. “It’s only a couple of syllables/a few keystrokes…” I guess I can understand that sentiment, but I’m not sure I find it terribly persuasive. Like I said, if someone tells me they prefer non-traditional pronouns, I do my best to respect their choice. (I suspect my earlier comments about cow-orkers may reflect how little I care for my job and the overwhelming majority of my cow-orkers.) That was another thing the comic said last night that I felt was on point. Not everyone who disfavors non-traditional pronouns feels antipathy towards trans people. Instead, they just don’t give a shit about them. As a general matter, I wish every single person is as reasonably content as they can be. But I really do not care much one way or another about just about anyone outside of my family/social circle. Similarly, I don’t expect much of anyone outside of a small circle to give a shit about me. I acknowledge my privileged white/cis male status provides me considerable luxury. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/247 "2024-06-18T21:18:08Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I read today that the US Surgeon General published a rare op-ed about the youth mental health crisis. Thank you for mentioning this. Is this what you meant? > **[Youth Mental Health](https://www.hhs.gov/surgeongeneral/priorities/youth-mental-health/index.html)** > > Youth Mental Health You can choose the 53 page pdf or a one page summary. The one page summary doesn’t really say anything beyond a crisis exists. If there is an op-ed by the Surgeon General somewhere short of 53 pages, do you remember where? The NYTimes? Atlantic? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/248 "2024-06-18T21:20:14Z")
New York Times. I’m not a subscriber so I haven’t read it. > **[Opinion | Surgeon General: Why I’m Calling for a Warning Label on Social...](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/opinion/social-media-health-warning.html)** > > It’s time for decisive action to protect our young people. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/249 "2024-06-18T21:23:44Z")
I am: [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/opinion/social-media-health-warning.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.0k0.Asx4.3t4QBvNT3\_8N&smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/opinion/social-media-health-warning.html?unlocked_article_code=1.0k0.Asx4.3t4QBvNT3_8N&smid=url-share) Gift link. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/250 "2024-06-18T21:24:10Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’m not a subscriber so I haven’t read it. Thank you. You can now: > **[Surgeon General Calls for Warning Labels on Social Media Platforms](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/health/surgeon-general-social-media-warning-label.html?unlocked_article_code=1.0k0.3L3R.4c9Va80B8wNf&smid=url-share)** > > Dr. Vivek Murthy said he would urge Congress to require a warning that social media use can harm teenagers’ mental health. (Hopefully I managed to gift it) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/251 "2024-06-18T21:24:13Z")
I don’t doubt you, but I find that to be an odd reaction. Do you also find it demeaning when you’re asked whether you have any allergies or food sensitivities at a restaurant? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/252 "2024-06-18T21:25:39Z")
I think there’s a sort of perception that people are being asked ‘we, [people who have a need or desire to declare pronouns], want to do things this way, and so you all have to comply’ - and that’s uncomfortable - mainly just because it’s unsolicited change, and people aren’t great with unsolicited change. But really, the prevailing system where we’ll just look at a person and guess which pronouns are appropriate, is also just a different case of ‘we want to do things this way so you all have to comply’. In reality, this convention probably won’t change entirely just by asking or persuading people to change - it will change by people who didn’t want the change getting old and dying, while other younger people who grew up with it as completely normal, replace them. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/253 "2024-06-18T21:28:10Z")
And, in emails at work, where I have no idea whether Shaylin Patel is a man, woman, or enby? At work, there are lots of people who have names where I can’t identify gender. I’ve exchanged emails and then been on calls with people, and I still couldn’t tell - low voice woman? High voice man? Something else? The heavily accented speech didn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/254 "2024-06-18T21:32:13Z")
I mean, while we’re at it, in emails we should probably adopt the German convention where family name (for those naming systems that have it) is capitalised, like John SMITH - because honestly it’s not always easy to tell. (In a place I used to work, there was a Brant Gordon and also a Gordon Brant\* and it caused no end of inconvenience for both of them) \*(I changed the names to something else, but they were something like that) ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/255 "2024-06-18T21:36:00Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > If you scroll down literally one page it does have an old-fashioned table of contents with page numbers 🙂. No kidding! My point still stands. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/256 "2024-06-18T21:38:17Z")
Not a bad idea! Those Germans are so efficient. They gender everything - I wonder what they’re doing about that. ETA: like all professions, not just their nouns - Lehrer, Lehrerin for male and female teacher, Arzt, Ärztin for doctors, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/257 "2024-06-18T21:39:43Z")
Yes, please. I run across this all the time with people writing from China in English, in cases where the given and surname are each one syllable. Chinese order or Western order? Who can tell? Ming WO and MING Wo (not a real person: the name of a local shop) would be so much clearer. It would also help with Spanish names (do you prefer the penultimate name, the last name, or the last two names?). ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/258 "2024-06-18T21:43:21Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’ve exchanged emails and then been on calls with people, and I still couldn’t tell - low voice woman? Just an anecdote, but I had lengthy phone conversations over the course of several months with “Stacy” and assumed, from a combination of name and voice pitch, that Stacy was female. I then attended a Zoom conference where it would have been entirely possible that I might have said something like, “Yes, Stacy and I talked about this very issue last month, and she said…” Thank goodness for the visuals on Zoom, though. Imagine my surprise when I saw that Stacy presents as unmistakably male. It was a relief to see that BEFORE I needed to use a pronoun in reference to him. (Stacy is in something of a position of power over the organization I represent, and although I hate to say it, because at heart he is such a sweetheart and he’s always been there for us whenever we needed him, he easily takes offense. So I could see him being really miffed at being mis-gendered.) The above story is about 2-3 years old - as it is extremely common in my work-related circles to include one’s pronouns in various settings, I’m guessing his preferred pronouns are on his sig line now, and/or his Zoom ID, and/or we’d all be asked to specify at the start of a meeting. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/259 "2024-06-18T21:46:38Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I don’t doubt you, but I find that to be an odd reaction. Do you also find it demeaning when you’re asked whether you have any allergies or food sensitivities at a restaurant? I never have been asked that. But I would expect that the restaurant would expect that I would tell them if I had food allergies, otherwise they would assume that I was in the majority default position of not having them. On a similar note, I rarely even offer my name if I’m meeting someone that I’m going to be around for a few hours or less and likely never see again. Someone says “Hi, I’m Bob.”? I say “Hello”, I don’t say my name. There is no reason they need to know my name, and I have no reason I need to know theirs. They will know if I’m talking _to_ them, I won’t be talking _about_ them to anyone, and chances are by the next day I’ll never think about them again for the rest of my life. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/260 "2024-06-18T21:52:15Z")
So, would a better approach be to simply increase the use of “they/them” - if not for everyone, then at least for anyone with unclear/possibly androgynous names? **“Yes, Stacy and I talked about this very issue last month, and THEY said…”** (Pronoun changed in unattributed quoted sentence.) While I might think it odd - not sure I’d be insulted to be called “her” - I doubt I’d even notice if I were called “they.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937.md?page=14)