# I can't deal with transgender anymore **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 16, 2024, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937 "2024-06-16T08:49:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/301 "2024-06-19T19:12:14Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Their problems are not my problem. And there you have it. [Relevant poem](https://allpoetry.com/No-man-is-an-island) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/302 "2024-06-19T19:12:41Z")
> [@SailorHG](#): > > Everyone else should just look at me as _a person_ From, at least, one post in this thread that’s something that some folks need to work on. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/303 "2024-06-19T19:22:01Z")
> [@SailorHG](#): > > This whole discussion is a matter of “how I want to be referred to” rather than “how I want to be addressed” (as mis-stated up thread). Sometimes, but not always. I still get mail and email addressed to “Mr.” and/or starting off “Dear Sir”. I get phone calls insisting on talking to “Mr [Mylastname]” – some of them from one persistent caller who made many calls, from what I think was the same voice and in the same manner, over two or three years. (I think they’ve given up, but am not sure.) I doubt they were calling for a specific man and had the wrong number; I think they were calling a farm and couldn’t believe there wasn’t a man involved somewhere who they could talk to. It’s true that I don’t expect any of these people to start addressing me directly as “She/her”; but if they know those are my pronouns, they’ll I hope have the sense to know to try Ms. (Or I suppose Mx., though I doubt anybody using Mx. is going to default to Mr. without asking first in any case.) ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/304 "2024-06-19T20:28:14Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Sometimes, but not always. I still get mail and email addressed to “Mr.” and/or starting off “Dear Sir”. The sister I live with uses the nickname form of her name that is one of those common non-gendered names, and we occasionally get mail addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Lastname. In fact, it took us years to get the County Museum to change our membership to our individual names instead of as a married couple. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/305 "2024-06-19T21:19:45Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > > > Their problems are not my problem. > > And there you have it. [Relevant poem](https://allpoetry.com/No-man-is-an-island) I was expecting that link to lead [here](https://www.amnesty.org.uk/files/2019-01/First%2520They%2520Came%2520by%2520Martin%2520Niem%C3%B6ller_0.pdf?l6HOtWW1N8umC_ELxnQI6NpaAYbxRCJj=). ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/306 "2024-06-19T21:45:26Z")
That is, [here](https://www.hmd.org.uk/resource/first-they-came-by-pastor-martin-niemoller/). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/307 "2024-06-19T22:03:51Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It’s like people saying, “why should I apologize for what my ancestors did?” Um, nobody’s asking you to. But also, what they did was terrible, and it still has repercussions today: that’s what we want you to see. You don’t have to have feelings about it, but it would be nice if you saw it And what they’ll say back: “So? Do you expect me to _DO_ something about it? If not then why bring it up?” Because in the end that’s part of it. Reading into it an expectation to do something about it. Which they are unwilling or unable. MANY people believe that if some people have been privileged and others have been shafted by history and the system, well that’s NOT an injustice it’s _just, unfortunately, how things are_ …and we are telling them that no, it’s not so. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/308 "2024-06-20T01:42:14Z")
It’s looking like this was a sort of drive-by post, but I want to address a few things from the OP. > [@DKW](#): > > “NO! Not all transpeople go through surgery!” Uh…okay…so what is the distinction? “They _identify_ as the opposite gender!” Uh…okay…so you just have to _declare_ what you are and… “NO! It’s not like that!” It is pretty much exactly like that. What about that has anyone said is wrong? > [@DKW](#): > > Now I’m certain that there is plenty of hard science governing who is an actual transperson and who, well, isn’t, but unless someone somewhere is willing to have a mature discussion instead of just barking angrily, I can’t help but be misinformed. This is the old trope of, I can’t help being offensive because no one from the group I’m being offensive about will spoon-feed it all to me, while I can’t look something up on [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender), because why should I have to do any work? > **[Transgender](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender)** > > A transgender person (often shortened to trans person) is someone whose gender identity differs from that typically associated with the sex they were assigned at birth. Some transgender people who desire medical assistance to transition from one sex to another identify as transsexual. Transgender is also an umbrella term; in addition to including people whose gender identity is the opposite of their assigned sex (trans men and trans women), it may also include people who are non-binary Being ... > [@DKW](#): > > But when it comes to transgenderism, I’m apparently supposed to be an expert in a very complex, confusing subject of which I have no formal teaching and very little true understanding, and if I ever misgender anyone…again, based on identity or preferred pronouns, not any official record that I have access to…even if I have reason to have my doubts, even if it’s an honest mistake, First, “transgenderism” is at this point a right-wing slur, or fear-mongering word. So, assuming good faith here, you might want to avoid it. And I don’t understand why you feel constrained by what might be on an official record. Do you call everyone by their full names? No Jim for James, or Ellie for Eleanor? Also, this has been pointed out on the board before–you don’t actually have to understand it. It’s just common courtesy to call people what they want to be called. And it should make zero difference to anyone else. So if someone says that their pronouns are “they/them,” it should not matter; just use their pronouns. It’s not even extra syllables. Finally, I’m sure there are some who might throw a tantrum, but usually people who change their names or pronouns are pretty forgiving if you make a good faith effort. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/309 "2024-06-20T13:48:00Z")
So is @DKW **ever** going to return to this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/310 "2024-06-20T14:40:58Z")
They can’t deal with it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/311 "2024-06-20T19:10:59Z")
For your information, here’s Rebecca Watson’s refutation of the Cass Report - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI57lFn\_vWk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI57lFn_vWk) . ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/312 "2024-06-20T19:18:37Z")
That was posted all the way back in post #12, and dismissed by **Dr.Strangelove** because Watson’s response has emotions in it. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/313 "2024-06-20T19:25:21Z")
Ah, so sorry. I’ve only just discovered this thread, and I’m slowly working my way through it. There’s a tremendous amount to unpack here. I will always post links that refute the Cass report whenever I see it referred to. Some of you may find the ‘Gender Support’ thread useful - searching doesn’t show that anyone else has referenced it yet. [Gender Support Thread for Dopers who are gender diverse, families of trans people, or allies](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gender-support-thread-for-dopers-who-are-gender-diverse-families-of-trans-people-or-allies/998563) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/314 "2024-06-20T19:29:12Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > Ah, so sorry. I’ve only just discovered this thread, and I’m slowly working my way through it. There’s a tremendous amount to unpack here. I will always post links that refute the Cass report whenever I see it referred to. No worries. Can’t have too many links to good information out there. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/315 "2024-06-20T19:42:48Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > > [@DKW](#): > > > > “NO! Not all transpeople go through surgery!” Uh…okay…so what is the distinction? “They _identify_ as the opposite gender!” Uh…okay…so you just have to _declare_ what you are and… “NO! It’s not like that!” > > It is pretty much exactly like that. What about that has anyone said is wrong? My guess is that if anyone said that was wrong it was to head off that oft made right-wing claim that cis boys are going to start claiming they identify as female just so they can get into the girl’s locker room and crap like that. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/316 "2024-06-21T02:44:25Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Best practice, when you want to learn someone else’s pronouns is to say, “hi, I’m Carol, i use she/her”, creating an opening for the other person to offer their pronouns, or to decline to do so. I am very used to The Pronoun Thing at work, in meetings. But I’d find this practice quite odd as a one-on-one technique introducing yourself. And I’m beyond certain you didn’t mean to imply this, but in a one-on-one context it does sound a little like something an obnoxious person might do to satisfy their own curiosity about someone else who is not presenting clearly M or F well enough for them. In fact it might be taken as a direct insult: “You are not ‘passing.’ FYI.” Natalie Wynn aka Contrapoints got in trouble years ago on Twitter when she observed cis-het women taking pains to introduce themselves with pronouns when Natalie was present, but perhaps not otherwise. The implication, to Natalie, was that they perceived her as obviously trans and they were trying specifically to make her feel comfortable, with unfortunately the opposite effect. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/317 "2024-06-21T03:20:15Z")
Yeah, one-on-one that would be weird. And in fact, most of the people I’ve known who changed their pronouns “told” people by changing their display name on discord or zoom, and not by announcing it out loud. But it’s less awkward to say what your own pronouns are than to ask other people what their are. That has more than a suggestion that you can’t tell. And people with non-obvious pronouns have told me that this is their preference. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/318 "2024-06-21T04:00:26Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > If anyone does, I do my best to use their preferred pronouns. But to specify one’s pronouns consistently sorta comes across as virtue signaling. It’s specifically the point to do it consistently rather than only when you know or suspect that trans people are present. Part of the reason for that is to not be singling out trans people for different treatment, and another reason is that it’s not always obvious that someone might have different pronouns from what you think. Also, for many in the thread, not just you, it’s just “their pronouns,” not “their _preferred_ pronouns.” Most people consider one (or sometimes more than one) set of pronouns to be their pronouns, or their correct pronouns. For most people, it’s not just a preference. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/319 "2024-06-22T09:47:20Z")
For a long time, I preferred to use the Spivak pronouns (e, eir, em, emself) for all genders, but they are difficult to use in conversation (‘e’ sounds like ‘he’, ‘eir’ sounds like ‘her’, and so on). So I use singular ‘they’ in most cases nowadays, unless someone corrects me. My younger child is nonbinary, and prefers ‘they’; their partner sometimes uses ‘they’ and sometimes ‘her’, so I tend to use ‘they’ in that context too. Used sensitively, ‘they’ is the best choice in most contexts, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/320 "2024-06-22T12:30:59Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Used sensitively, ‘they’ is the best choice in most contexts, I think. So misgengering the large majority of all people is the “best choice”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937.md?page=17)