# I can't deal with transgender anymore **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 16, 2024, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937 "2024-06-16T08:49:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/121 "2024-06-17T00:22:26Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Any name can be mispronounced, regardless of how obvious it may seem to those familiar with it. I knew a Charles when I lived in Egypt, and I’d have thought that would be a pretty straightforward name to pronounce. But it was usually pronounced Shar - Less. Yeah, my favorite example of this is [Tad Szulc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tad_Szulc). And I quite certain Mr. Zulk got very tired of saying ‘It’s Shultz like the Snoopy guy.’ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/122 "2024-06-17T00:26:50Z")
Another fave example of mine, although from the 1920s, was the two Scottish brothers who founded an airplane company named after themselves: Loughead Aviation. Eventually they got rich enough, and pissed-off enough, to rename it for ease of pronunciation. Perhaps you’ve heard of Lockheed? Same pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/123 "2024-06-17T00:43:06Z")
> [@DETXL](#): > > The last Zoom call I was on, they insisted on everyone going around the table and introducing themselves, because apparently some people have weird foreign names like “Osaki” that are hard to pronounce. This is totally normal custom for American business meetings regardless of what anyone’s name might be. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/124 "2024-06-17T00:53:01Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Perhaps because a round of “introduce yourself and give a little schpiel” is pretty standard in face to face and online business meetings, and if you’re in one of those, _refusing to even give your own name_ seems pretty over-the-top. That’s how I read it. I have been in more than a few of those meetings and had to do the introduce yourself thing (minus the pronouns…I am old). Is there a book they tells managers to do that? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/125 "2024-06-17T02:05:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I feel like you’re missing a pretty significant amount of sarcasm in that post? Yeah, it seemed pretty clear to me that it was sarcasm and a joke. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/126 "2024-06-17T02:06:41Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Yeah, it seemed pretty clear to me that it was sarcasm and a joke It came across to me as “cranky old man,” but then, my message-board-sarcasm detection meter is often faulty. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/127 "2024-06-17T02:26:39Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Yeah, it seemed pretty clear to me that it was sarcasm and a joke. That was definitely my impression too, but to be fair, it did take me two readings of the post to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/128 "2024-06-17T02:46:04Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I’ll be honest about having missed the sarcasm. Fooled me too, but I don’t know Jack Shit apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/129 "2024-06-17T03:00:08Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > But what I’m finding very strange indeed is the archetypal male (or female) who is 100% unambiguously A MAN being bothered to just acknowledge that he IS A MAN by confirming his pronouns. Why would that upset him? What if those are not his pronouns? What if he does not feel comfortable sharing his real pronouns **with you** because of fear that since he so clearly presents as male that you will negatively judge him if he doesn’t use he/him/his. And here is an interesting fact I learned a year ago. We know the Village People were homosexuals but why were they dressed as a police office, construction worker, etc. because in the 70s homosexuals dressing as the unambiguous archetype male figure was a type of drag and very prevalent at the balls at the time. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/130 "2024-06-17T03:10:12Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > I’m sorry, but this is your privilege of being secure in your gender speaking. > > I see how you’d say that, and I’m sure it is a factor but I want to be clear here that I’m talking about very specific types of interactions; those casual ones in coffee shops and conferences, with people you’ll interact with for short periods but won’t necessarily ever see again. Those people have no need to ever think about my gender. > [@mnemosyne](#): > > And “not giving pronouns” just means I’ll use they/them, which are actually pronouns so…if that’s not what people want, I do think they should clarify. That’s cool with me. Yeah, if i want you to use some specific pronouns, it’s helpful if i tell you. But I’d really prefer not to make a fuss about my pronouns and sure, default to “they” if that’s how you roll. As i said, i have attracted a variety of pronouns, and especially for the casual situations with people who may never see me again, whatever pronoun suits their fancy is just fine. She, he, they, ze, e, go for it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/131 "2024-06-17T03:10:48Z")
I have an honest question for you mnemosyne because I don’t see the answer in your posts. You ask a person for their pronouns and they choose not to give them to you Are they an ahole for not giving out their pronouns? Do you have the right or responsibility to badger them for their pronouns? Is it acceptable for a person to refuse to give YOU their pronouns because of the nature of your relationship (coworkers, strangers in a store, plumber and client, whatever) they don’t feel comfortable with telling you? For the record my answers are Benefit of the doubt. I’ve known a few people that are still trying to deal with their gender-identity so it is understandable if they do not want to share. Absolutely not. Absolutely. People are allowed to share or not share whatever personal information they choose to. However the tradeoff is acceptance of whatever pronoun the other party feels is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/132 "2024-06-17T03:17:41Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Maybe I don’t want to tell everyone in the room of people I work with that information. (not me but really asking) If you don’t there is at least one poster in this thread that thinks you’re whining and that you hate society. Oh and that you want to oppress transgendered people. Just for not wanting to be forced to reveal personal information. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/133 "2024-06-17T03:18:28Z")
I spell it Bette. ---
**Author:** ![DETXL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/detxl/32/19366_2.png) [@DETXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DETXL)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/134 "2024-06-17T03:18:37Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Yeah, it seemed pretty clear to me that it was sarcasm and a joke. It was! But tone is difficult in text and that’s always on the writer, not the reader, isn’t it? In my usual circles “because Woke” is self-evident parody of the kind of people who use the phrase “social justice warrior” unironically, but that wasn’t clear 😛 definitely not as clear as I figured it would be. Non-sarcastically, the OP talks in very broad strokes about how they “can’t deal” with the existence of gender non-conforming people when they clearly do not make any effort to deal with it in the first place. And, moreover, somehow did not feel the need to mention that the proximate cause of their post was not “failing to clearly intuit someone’s pronouns and being unfairly maligned for it.” It was “knowing exactly what someone’s pronouns are, declaring that they don’t believe that person, and intentionally using the wrong pronouns when referring to them.” They are shocked (shocked! like Captain Renault) that this was apparently objectionable, but if that’s the bar for not being able to “deal with transgender,” it’s a fantastically low one to fail to clear, because I can’t imagine that’s ever been an acceptable thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/135 "2024-06-17T03:39:08Z")
> [@DETXL](#): > > Non-sarcastically, the OP talks in very broad strokes about how they “can’t deal” with the existence of gender non-conforming people when they clearly do not make any effort to deal with it in the first place. And, moreover, somehow did not feel the need to mention that the proximate cause of their post was not “failing to clearly intuit someone’s pronouns and being unfairly maligned for it.” It was “knowing exactly what someone’s pronouns are, declaring that they don’t believe that person, and intentionally using the wrong pronouns when referring to them.” I’ve read the OP three times, and while this is my best guess, too, that’s the only thing they posted in the thread, and i remain uncertain as to who bit off their head for saying what. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/136 "2024-06-17T03:48:19Z")
We use the Workday HRIS at work and a while back we turned on two features allowing workers to enter their preferred pronoun on their profile and to include a pronunciation for their name. I don’t know what percentage of employees have actually entered their pronouns onto their profiles, but it’s high enough that’s it’s not unusual to see it but not so high that it’s unusual not to see it. There are a handful of employees who have entered something other than he/she. We have at least one transgender employee that we know about and one non-binary individual. I only know about them because they both wanted to change their sex as it was entered into the system. We were able to help the transgender employee but there isn’t an option in Workday at this time for non-binary workers to enter that as their sex. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/137 "2024-06-17T05:37:42Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > On the one hand, i really didn’t want to enter “she”. And on the other, i really didn’t want to side with the cranky old men. So i ended up entering “any pronouns”, which i hope is taken as supportive, and not as mocking. Yeah, I kind of feel that the current fixation on gender is generally harmful. I think people should be free to dress and act as they like for the most part, irrespective of what they decide to identify as. I’ve been addressed as “Ma’am” in person as an adult. The one time it was repeated through the conversation I was a little bewildered by that, as I’ve got secondary male characteristics out the wazoo (should have been shaving twice a day since I was fourteen or so). But I went along with it. I guessed they just thought I was a particularly mannish woman, or maybe their eyesight was bad (in their defense,I did have very long dyed black hair at the time). So, I’m mostly inclined to enter “I don’t care, have fun with it.” when I’m asked to enter my pronouns. But I usually just leave it blank, because that might be seen as denigrating the folks who actually do care. I’d rather be seen as indifferent, in that case. I’m also not particularly fixated on the name you call me. I’ve got a first name that’s hard for most people who started with an Asian language to pronounce properly, and my last name is a shibboleth. If you only read it and think you know how to pronounce it, you’re almost certainly wrong. If you only hear it and think you know how to spell it, you’re almost certainly wrong. Oddly enough, a co-worker of mine who transitioned had a name similar _enough_ to mine. When their name got updated in the company database, mine was updated as well. This caused my name to change company wide, including my chat and email clients. So I went around for a few weeks with all of my messages indicating I now had this very feminine name (in some databases around the company, it’s still my name). She was completely mortified, and apologized. I told her the truth, I thought it was hilarious and didn’t care. Some of my co-workers and customers were confused, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/138 "2024-06-17T08:16:39Z")
One thing I will say that has been ever so mildly undesirable to me about the way gender identity is being handled, in the modern world, is when people refer to me as ‘they/them’, because I didn’t explicitly state any pronouns; I’m male and I am a man; I have a conspicuous beard and my voice sounds characteristically male; I grew up in a world where it was absolutely fine for everyone to assume that, looking and sounding stereotypically a male man, I would be addressed as he/him. I don’t need anyone to assume that my gender identity is uncertain because, for most of my life, it’s been incredibly obvious and unambiguous. It makes me ever so slightly uncomfortable to feel that people are uncertain, or indeed that I should have to specify what has always in the past been obvious. However, perspective time: that uncertainty they are expressing is motivated by politeness, and my ever-so-slight discomfort about how the world has changed, and I don’t fit as well as I once did, must be weighed against the surely much greater problems experienced by people for whom everything is not as cut-and-dried stereotypically obvious as it has always been for me. We are a society, after all. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/139 "2024-06-17T08:54:50Z")
I work with a non-binary person who is very low key about preferring they/them. I was mortified when I finally found out I was misgendering them and apologized profusely… It’s hard for me to remember that they prefer they/them because they come across as female to me. But I worked with a female to male transgender man before and after they started transitioning and I never got any sense of gender from them. But it’s not about me, it’s about me acknowledging who they are. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937/140 "2024-06-17T09:42:12Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Honey, I’ve known plenty of obvious and unmistakable men, as hairy and beefy as anyone you’d find, who were as queer as a three dollar bill. You might want to examine those assumptions of yours. Honey, we’re talking about people declaring their personal pronouns. Never once did I suggest that hairy or beefy men can’t be gay, because that’s obviously (a) untrue and (b) off-topic. You might want to examine that reading comprehension of yours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-deal-with-transgender-anymore/1002937.md?page=8)