# i cant' rite or due math buti shud grag, no- gradyu, no-get teh dipolma neway **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 10, 2006, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803 "2006-02-10T03:49:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/81 "2006-02-12T23:11:35Z")
As a former California high school student who took the accused test in my freshman year, I would like to say that the test is slightly harder than breathing and most algae and rocks can pass it in one try. There are no contestable scoring standards applied; students get to try it every semester for the entire time they’re in high school. That’s eight tries. The standards are so low that most people who can successfully use a soda can should be able to finish it in no more than two or three tries. Any school facing a problem with students failing the test, needs a 100% teacher turnover, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/82 "2006-02-13T00:13:28Z")
> [@](#): > > riginally Posted by smiling bandit > Problematically, there are a lto of peopple in this world who simply aren’t cut out to do anythig else. HUman beings are designed to live physical lives. Within that scope, we can become extremely sophisticated. Almost any **male human** can become an expert hunter. Not many can become theoterical physicists. But we need more physicists than hunters, and that’s a problem. We can try to push people harder into physics - but what about those who are simply very good hunters? Just out of curiosity, slight hijack. **smiling bandit** did you mean to state “male human”? Can’t female humans become expert hunters? (not that I personally would want to, I just noticed this and was curious about it). ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/83 "2006-02-13T00:35:44Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Indeed. The “But I tried really hard; I worked a long time on this” crowd is in for a real shock in college, where the profs (at least, all the ones I know of) don’t care if you spent one hour or ten hours working on something. A poorly done assignment is a poorly done assignment, no matter how long the student spent on it. Exactly!! And neither the parents suing educators because precious Johnny failed, nor the administrators doing the “match the number with the word” type teaching are doing these kids any favor by coddling them now. College is going to come as a shock. Real life is going to come as a full blown catastrophe to these kids. Professor’s require a decent to good assignment to pass them. Employers expect them to be there, ON TIME, do the work and do it correctly. Those who’ve had to graduate from the school of hard knocks and hard work are going to be a lot more qualified to handle this. Those who whined and flunked out of school with their poor english and non-existant math skills (Not to mention work ethic) are going to be the ones standing on the street corner wearing the chicken costume for the local fast food place because they aren’t even smart enough to work behind the counter. You see a lot of bitching from these sorts. “Well I ain’t workin at no McDonald’s man”. What? Did you think that SOMA12 gets you a corner office and your own secretary straight out of HS, or automatically at 18 (since many of them don’t even graduate)??? Do you think those of us who have become somewhat successful had it handed to us? HELL NO. First we graduated HS. Then we worked at some sucky low-paying job. Then, we got a slightly better one, still sucky, still low-paying. And we either worked out way through college, or we learned a trade, or both. Or one, and then the other. Success has to do with one thing, and one thing only. Work, work ethics, and character. (yes, yes there are the useless Paris Hiltons of the world, I mean in REAL life). ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/84 "2006-02-13T02:19:02Z")
> [@ladybug](#): > > Some time later my guidance counselor praised me for doing so well on the test. She said that I was the only person in the school to score 100 percent on the math section. I found that very scary, considering that the typical question involved pictures of money and asked the student to state the amount shown (multiple choice, no less). If you can’t add up a few dollar bills and some change by the time you’re 16, you’re in big trouble. Too many people are already in big trouble. If you don’t believe me, next time you pay for a purchase that’s something like $17.32, hand the clerk a $20, and after they’ve punched $20.00 into the register, hand them a quarter and a dime. Have your camera ready for a deer in the headlights look. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/85 "2006-02-13T02:31:36Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Too many people are already in big trouble. If you don’t believe me, next time you pay for a purchase that’s something like $17.32, hand the clerk a $20, and after they’ve punched $20.00 into the register, hand them a quarter and a dime. Have your camera ready for a deer in the headlights look. Hell, half the time if you try to give them $20.32 so they’ll only have to give you three ones, they look at you like you just tried to hand them a live cobra instead of making things easier on them… ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/86 "2006-02-13T03:08:33Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Hell, half the time if you try to give them $20.32 so they’ll only have to give you three ones, they look at you like you just tried to hand them a live cobra instead of making things easier on them… You bastard! I’m not supposed to be reading the Dope and this line cracked me up. :smack: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DoperChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@DoperChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoperChic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/87 "2006-02-13T04:25:11Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Too many people are already in big trouble. If you don’t believe me, next time you pay for a purchase that’s something like $17.32, hand the clerk a $20, and after they’ve punched $20.00 into the register, hand them a quarter and a dime. Have your camera ready for a deer in the headlights look. I tried to do something similar once and the sales girl actually refused to let me give her the change. Her argument was that the register had already accounted for how much I gave her and me giving her the change would mess up the system. She wasn’t arguing that it would be difficult to recalculate my change, but that I would somehow alter the total amount left in the drawer. :wally ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/88 "2006-02-13T05:53:58Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Too many people are already in big trouble. If you don’t believe me, next time you pay for a purchase that’s something like $17.32, hand the clerk a $20, and after they’ve punched $20.00 into the register, hand them a quarter and a dime. Have your camera ready for a deer in the headlights look. Meh. I’d freeze in that situation, and I have a Bachelor of Science degree, have taken 3 Calc classes, differential equations, discrete math, etc. The lowest grade I got in all of those was a B-. Having trouble giving change out when there’s suddenly extra change (which messes up the amount you had figured out) doesn’t mean they can’t do math at all. I lost track of the number of times I’d be doing my homework at the counter\*, a situation like that would happen and I’d slightly freeze. The person would sneer and then ask what homework I was doing. “Oh, I’m working on Jacobian transformations” (or what have you) and show them something like this: [http://www.math.ucla.edu/~ronmiech/Calculus\_Problems/32B/chap13/section9/886d3/IMG00002.GIF](http://www.math.ucla.edu/~ronmiech/Calculus_Problems/32B/chap13/section9/886d3/IMG00002.GIF) - I worked at a garage/gas station in high school and the first 2 years of college, and the boss let me do my homework in the evenings ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/89 "2006-02-13T13:30:49Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > **smiling bandit** did you mean to state “male human”? Can’t female humans become expert hunters? > > (not that I personally would want to, I just noticed this and was curious about it). I suppose they could. Not that many female hunters. It may be instinctual: don’t want the wimmin’folk out with the lions and the wolves. Anyway, for whatever reason, all hunter-gatherer sociaties I know of\* have only male hunters. - There is one such which isn’t. They are, however, stuck in a horrendous barren desert. Children over age 10 are forced onto another plot of land - and killed if they refuse - because it’s impossible to survive otherwise. These are peope who can survive on grass and lizards, and for obvious reasons they make little distinction between sexes. On the up side,mthey have no wars and no one will ever kick them off the land… and if someone did, they’d probably be grateful. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/90 "2006-02-13T15:43:37Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Too many people are already in big trouble. If you don’t believe me, next time you pay for a purchase that’s something like $17.32, hand the clerk a $20, and after they’ve punched $20.00 into the register, hand them a quarter and a dime. Have your camera ready for a deer in the headlights look. Becuase that’s the start of a popular short change scam, and thus they are trying to figure out whetehr or not you’re starting that scam or want to be "helpful’, which you’re not. _Don’t do this, it’s rude_. If you want to give them change too, then do it all at once- or ask for it after the transaction is over. I have told my cashiers in the past that when someone starts this- don’t accept the change, finish the transaction, close the register, and then ask if the customer wants us to turn his/her small change into bills. So, DoperChic, the girl was likey trying to be nice and not just say “OH, we can’t do that as you might be trying a shaort-change scam on us”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/91 "2006-02-13T15:47:12Z")
"Becuase that’s the start of a popular short change scam, and here it is: [http://fraudtech.bizland.com/short\_change.htm](http://fraudtech.bizland.com/short_change.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/92 "2006-02-13T16:38:33Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > One of Bush’s essays from his days at Yale? Very good. Only 5 messages ahead of you, before you dragged Bush into something totally irrelevant. Keep practicing. Pretty soon you’ll reach that Zen-like state where you can post an irrelevant message about Bush as a response to an OP that hasn’t even been composed yet. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/93 "2006-02-13T16:41:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > "Becuase that’s the start of a popular short change scam, and here it is: > [http://fraudtech.bizland.com/short\_change.htm](http://fraudtech.bizland.com/short_change.htm) I don’t buy it. Handing a cashier an extra 35 cents is a far cry from trying to exchange ten $1 bills for a $10 bill, and then trying to build that up to a $20. It’s really pretty simple. For the example $17.32 purchase, I’ve given the cashier a $20 bill, and then added 35 cents. I have yet to receive anything back. How could this possibly be a scam? It’s probably a good policy for **DrDeth** to have, but that’s because your average cashier can’t do simple math in his/her head, as others have mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/94 "2006-02-13T17:30:16Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Handing a cashier an extra 35 cents is a far cry from trying to exchange ten $1 bills for a $10 bill, and then trying to build that up to a $20. > > It’s really pretty simple. For the example $17.32 purchase, I’ve given the cashier a $20 bill, and then added 35 cents. I have yet to receive anything back. How could this possibly be a scam? > > It’s probably a good policy for **DrDeth** to have, but that’s because your average cashier can’t do simple math in his/her head, as others have mentioned. You may not be a sophisticated scammer, but there are plenty of people who are. I understand what you are doing, but my policy when I’m a cashier is once i punch in numbers to my register, nothing in that transaction is changing. The scammers out there are very good. I’ve been taken in, and when you are working as a cashier that is a good sign you can’t afford to lose that job. It only takes having your livelihood (home, health) threatened once to make you very cautious. Yes, it’s a simple transaction and a moment’s thought will make things clear. But just like any other person in the world, when cashiers perform a repetitive task for eight hours straight they go on autopilot. When you spend eight hours a day punching in numbers and handing back the amount shown, a switch from that is going to take some time. Would you expect a factory worker on a car assembly line to act cooly and quickly when a deer comes down the line instead of the expected car? It’s fun and easy to pick on clerks, but they are real people with actual real human reactions and human reaction times. I’d like to see how you’d react if a cashier came in to your work and tried to trip you up and then made fun of you in public. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/95 "2006-02-13T18:52:25Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > …Yes, it’s a simple transaction and a moment’s thought will make things clear. But just like any other person in the world, when cashiers perform a repetitive task for eight hours straight they go on autopilot. When you spend eight hours a day punching in numbers and handing back the amount shown, a switch from that is going to take some time. Would you expect a factory worker on a car assembly line to act cooly and quickly when a deer comes down the line instead of the expected car? It’s fun and easy to pick on clerks, but they are real people with actual real human reactions and human reaction times. I’d like to see how you’d react if a cashier came in to your work and tried to trip you up and then made fun of you in public. I worked as a front cashier (and on drive-thru, grill, and later as a shift supervisor) at McDonald’s for four years in high school and college. In my experience, the problem is entirely with the cashiers who zone out and “go on autopilot,” as you put it. (Those are also the workers who tend to never notice when the line of customers has stopped, and there is cleaning and restocking to be done.) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/96 "2006-02-14T00:34:10Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I worked as a front cashier (and on drive-thru, grill, and later as a shift supervisor) at McDonald’s for four years in high school and college. > > In my experience, the problem is entirely with the cashiers who zone out and “go on autopilot,” as you put it. > > (Those are also the workers who tend to never notice when the line of customers has stopped, and there is cleaning and restocking to be done.) So for those four years you gave each customer your full and best attention, ever ready for anything they may throw at you? I bet you smiled at each one, never accidently wished them a “good morning” in the evening, and never ever grumbled when they asked for extra ketchup. I’m sorry, I don’t believe it. I was a damn good cashier. But no human can perform the same transaction every sixty seconds without getting into some kind of groove. Hell, customers arn’t immune to it either. For one year, about sixty times an hour, at Blockbuster Video I would say “please press the green button and slide your card.” For one year, about sixty times an hour, a Blockbuster customer would slide the card, look confused, and press some random button that cancels the transaction. Then I would repeat “Please press the green button and slide your card.” Then the customer would once again fail to press the green button and slide the card. Sometimes they’d press the red “CANCEL TRANSACTION” button. Sometimes they’d start arguing with me. Sometimes they’d just slide and slide and slide while I said over and over again “please press the green button and slide your card. green button. green button. press the green button.” Usually it took three or four tries to get them to press the green button and then slide their card. These arn’t dumb people- most of our customers were doctor and lawyer types. But our ATMs worked in a slightly different order than the norm. And when you are doing something you do often without much thought, it can take a while to make sense of different instructions. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/97 "2006-02-14T13:02:56Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I am curious. The newest immigrants that I work with (Nigerians, Ghanians) seem to have incredible work ethics and education priorities. FYI, it’s Ghanaians (Gahn-AY-ins), which I learned from a recently-arrived Ghanaian in my office. And while French and some African languages are spoken there, English is the official language. Ghanaian English retains an accent and some vocabulary quirks, but is otherwise perfectly intelligible to Americans. Now that I think about it, it seems that every abandoned British colony gets these quirks – why can’t they speak English like Americans do? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/98 "2006-02-14T13:42:26Z")
More to the point, why is America the only abandoned British colony that can’t speak English like the English do? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/99 "2006-02-14T15:32:55Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > More to the point, why is America the only abandoned British colony that can’t speak English like the English do? 😛 o/`There are even places where English completely disappears. Why, in America they haven't used it for years! o/` ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803/100 "2006-02-14T16:16:25Z")
My questions: How did these students pass all the classes required to be eligible for a diploma? Shouldn’t the classwork teach the materials tested? Were they just socially promoted? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-rite-or-due-math-buti-shud-grag-no-gradyu-no-get-teh-dipolma-neway/343803.md?page=6)