# I can't take it anymore. I am pitting the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 23, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974 "2005-09-23T00:04:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/21 "2005-09-23T16:43:44Z")
The OP would like the system of storm warnings used in the Philippines. The “storm signals” range from signal #1, which means twigs and branches may be broken, to signal #4, which means batten down the hatches and head for the hills. The typhoon itself isn’t directly rated, but rather its effect on the countryside. A howler like Rita would raise signal #4, regardless of whether it’s category 3, 4, or 5, in areas which the storm passes directly over. Areas further away get signal #3, then #2, then #1. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/22 "2005-09-23T17:16:03Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > It’s not the volts, it’s the amps. “How many amps are there?” “Enough to push a train.” ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/23 "2005-09-23T17:39:02Z")
> [@Terminus Est](#): > > The “storm signals” range from signal #1, which means twigs and branches may be broken, to signal #4, which means batten down the hatches and head for the hills. We couldn’t use that scale here. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/24 "2005-09-23T18:15:16Z")
How so? Seems more nuanced than the simple hurricane watch/warning system or the misleading Saffir-Simpson scale. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/25 "2005-09-23T20:07:22Z")
> [@philster](#): > > Go downgrade your sister’s tomato, you friggin dimwitted, fucknut weather whores. > [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > The OP rates a 2 on the Giraffe-Bodoni scale. UPDATE: The thread has been downgraded to Category 1 thread now, and will continue to weaken as a MPSIMS in the next 6-8 hours. Sustained posting speed is decreasing, and the brain power totals will be smaller but more widespread. Dopers should evacuate to higher OPs and seek shelter away from low lying OPs. YR, NSDMBTR Whore 1:20PM PDT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/26 "2005-09-23T20:16:42Z")
Fox News is now reporting that Rita has been downgraded again to a flaccid category 3. The good news is that they’re now saying the storm is going to miss all those oil refineries. The bad news is that Galveston is going to get swamped regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/27 "2005-09-23T21:19:52Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > But actually they really do need to change the way they represent these storms. There’s way too much talk about Houston possibly “dodging a bullet” right now because of that uncertainty cone - which I think people are still (even for those that know better) conflating with a swath of destruction, and thinking the left half of the “swath” doesn’t matter because those are the lower force winds. It’s idiotic. It’s a probability map. > > They should just show who has a \>10% chance of \>cat 3 winds, then \>cat 1-2 winds, then tropical storm conditions. Forget the forcast track. Actually, the [National Hurricane Center](http://www.nhc.noaa.gov) has graphics showing just about that (though they are labled “experimental” at this point. Each of the storms listed has maps showing color-coded “Hurricane Wind Probabilities”, “50 knot Wind Probabilities”, and “Tropical Storm Wind Probabilities.” In other words, you you can check your location to see that you a 60 percent chance of Oh Crap, a 30 percent chance of Oh _Shit_, and a 10 percent chance of _HOLY SWEET MOTHER OF FUCK_. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/28 "2005-09-23T21:41:20Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > In other words, you you can check your location to see that you a 60 percent chance of Oh Crap, a 30 percent chance of Oh _Shit_, and a 10 percent chance of _HOLY SWEET MOTHER OF FUCK_. I like your scale much better. More to the point. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/29 "2005-09-23T21:47:44Z")
While we’re pitting the Saffir-Simpson Hurrican Scale, can we pit fahrenheit and celsius, neither of which are satisfactory, IMO. I personally cannot tell the difference between 82 and 85 degrees F. Nor can I tell much difference between 95 and 100. Even celsius is too broad. I nominate the Lisa scale: Freezing = This is the temp that’ll make the snot freeze in your nostrils. Cold = Hot cocoa and bonfires were made for these temps. And football. Mild = Throw your windows open during the day kind of weather. Warm = Shorts weather Hot = This is the temp where you’re so uncomfortable that someone’s knee touching yours is too much contact ---
**Author:** ![HelloKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecccb3/32.png) [@HelloKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelloKitty)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/30 "2005-09-23T22:30:01Z")
All the people I work with are now sitting around saying “Oh, thank goodness it’s dropped to a Category 3!!” One even said, “It’s ONLY Cat 3” Trying to fight ignorance, I commented, “125 MPH winds is a very strong storm.” To which they replied “Well, that’s better than 175 MPH winds!” Must. Resist. Urge. To. Bash. In. Heads. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/31 "2005-09-23T22:42:23Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Heck, 1 and 2, and even Tropical Storm if you get the direct hit, are a bitch and a half… Is that, like, a catagory 1.5 bitch? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/32 "2005-09-24T01:41:06Z")
> [@HelloKitty](#): > > “Well, that’s better than 175 MPH winds!” Well, it is. A 175 MPH wind has nearly twice the destructive power as a 125 MPH wind (175^2 / 125^2 = 1.96). 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/33 "2005-09-25T00:36:33Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Well, it is. A 175 MPH wind has nearly twice the destructive power as a 125 MPH wind (175^2 / 125^2 = 1.96). 😛 Yet, somehow, the storms packing 125 mph winds do about 70-80% as much damage. 🙂 One important factor missing in a Saffir-Simpson rating is the size of the storm and the resulting length of time the wind travels over the water, raising the surf. A very large, widely spread Cat 4 that has been a Cat 4 for days and comes ashore can bring bigger storm surge and more rain that a compact tightly formed Cat 5 that has been a Cat 5. The water is sometimes affected more by how long a distance the wind blows across it – not just how fast the wind is blowing. A good Ol’ Nor’Easter is capable of monstrous seas that are higher than a Cat 4 storm because Nor’Easter can get incredibly big and wide, with winds blowing across the sea for many hundreds of miles. The Saffir-Simpson scale over emphasizes winds, when rainfail and tidal surge are the real forces. Shoving the Category crap down everyone’s throat is just like telling about 1/4 of the whole story. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/34 "2005-09-25T03:42:17Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > One important factor missing in a Saffir-Simpson rating is the size of the storm and the resulting length of time the wind travels over the water, raising the surf. > > A very large, widely spread Cat 4 that has been a Cat 4 for days and comes ashore can bring bigger storm surge and more rain that a compact tightly formed Cat 5 that has been a Cat 5. > > [snip] > > The Saffir-Simpson scale over emphasizes winds, when rainfail and tidal surge are the real forces. > > Shoving the Category crap down everyone’s throat is just like telling about 1/4 of the whole story. And I suspect there’s a lot of people in lower Terrebonne and Jefferson Parishes who would fervently agree with you today. They barely saw Cat 1 winds, and yet are eight feet or more underwater tonight. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/35 "2005-09-25T15:04:57Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > In other words, you you can check your location to see that you a 60 percent chance of Oh Crap, a 30 percent chance of Oh _Shit_, and a 10 percent chance of _HOLY SWEET MOTHER OF FUCK_. Damn, that’s good. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/36 "2005-09-25T23:46:43Z")
Sometimes business reporters get it right: > [@](#): > > [_Lincoln Feast of Reuters articulates:_](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050925/bs_nm/markets_global_dc;_ylt=ArBtUf6mbM59cclA6UgO2LBv24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTA4MHNjNWZuBHNlYwMxNjk0) > > Rita roared in over the Gulf of Mexico coast near the border of Texas and Louisiana on Saturday bringing flooding, damage and misery but not the devastation feared after Hurricane Katrina tore through the region last month. > > Although still carrying 120 mile per hour (192 kph) winds and pushing in a 15-foot (4.5 meter) storm surge as it made landfall, Rita had been downgraded to a Category 3 hurricane from a maximum Category 5. Nice and concise setting of context, IMHO. (YMMV). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/37 "2005-09-26T21:40:47Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > And I suspect there’s a lot of people in lower Terrebonne and Jefferson Parishes who would fervently agree with you today. They barely saw Cat 1 winds, and yet are eight feet or more underwater tonight. We didn’t get anywhere near Cat 1 winds and we had flooding. Problem is the winds were constant for at least two days. The water just kept rising in Barataria Bay south of Jefferson and around New Orleans until the flooding happened. The scale works on the basis of letting you decide between “get the fuck out of town” or “I should buy supplies, board up and expect no power for a day or two”. Cindy, an early season tropical storm knocked out our power for two days. It was worse than expected, verging on a Cat one hurricane but tolerable. Katrina, well, everyone knows about that. I know that a slow moving high cat two or even one is much worse for my area than a fast moving mid range cat three. One is going to overwhelm the pumps and bring plenty of flooding while the other is going to knock out my lights and down some trees but we should be ok with the water. Speed at landfall is very important, second only to windspeed of the storm. The direction it is travelling when it impacts the coast is probably third. The talking heads on the networks may harp on the scale but those of us in the path pay a hell of a lot more attention to details than people who are not going to be hit by the storm. Ask anyone who lived in Southern Louisiana during [Hurricane Juan](http://www.csc.noaa.gov/crs/cohab/hurricane/juan/juan.htm) and it quickly becomes apparent how much a slow moving storm can cause havoc. The bastard,a weak cat one, just kept moving along the coast bringing flooding to the entire area. We volunteered to sandbag a flooded area and did so through the night till the national guard pulled our group out. It simple wasn’t possible to stop the flooding in the area. We got less damage from stronger storms which moved over the area quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/38 "2005-09-26T22:21:37Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > While we’re pitting the Saffir-Simpson Hurrican Scale, can we pit fahrenheit and celsius, neither of which are satisfactory, IMO. > > I personally cannot tell the difference between 82 and 85 degrees F. Nor can I tell much difference between 95 and 100. Even celsius is too broad. I nominate the Lisa scale: > > Freezing = This is the temp that’ll make the snot freeze in your nostrils. > > Cold = Hot cocoa and bonfires were made for these temps. And football. > > Mild = Throw your windows open during the day kind of weather. > > Warm = Shorts weather > > Hot = This is the temp where you’re so uncomfortable that someone’s knee touching yours is too much contact Damn hot = winter in Florida Fucking hot = Summer in Florida (anything above 92F) 😃 Oh, and… It ain’t the heat… it’s the _stupidity_ ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/39 "2005-09-26T22:41:23Z")
As a transplanted Oklahoman now living in south Louisiana, and having experienced three hurricanes now (Lily, Katrina, and Rita) I appreciate and agree with everything said so far. That said, here are the things I’ve learned: [ol] [li]I’d rather be 30 miles west of the eye than 60 miles to the east.[/li][li]Don’t try to sit through anything more than a Category 2 hurricane if you can help it. It’s not worth it.[/li][li]120 mph winds seems a helluva lot faster than 90 mph winds.[/li][li]I’ve had a tornado go through my neighborhood. I much prefer the tornado. [/li][li]Sandbags are just as important as candles.[/li][li]Don’t live on the coast.[/li][/ol] Just my personal list. I’m sure I still have a lot to learn. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974/40 "2005-09-26T22:48:47Z")
From a friend who saw catagory-4 Hurricane Fabian in Bermuda: “Live somewhere that they build the houses out of big lumps of rock”. The storm managed to kill four people - two policemen, and the women they were escorting across a causeway. Other than that, everyone (a) took the warnings seriously, and (b) were in a position to protect themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cant-take-it-anymore-i-am-pitting-the-saffir-simpson-hurricane-scale/322974.md?page=1)