I can't understand getting really sad about a celebrity's death

[Absolute]

I think the difference comes down to whether celebrities and their work are an important part of your life or not. Presumably, those people who are not bothered by celebrity deaths have other things in their life that they would be very disappointed to lose.

Personally, I don’t have much of an emotional connection to artwork, movies, music, TV, novels, etc. I enjoy these things, but they’re just entertainment, and I have lots of other entertaining things to do besides go to the movies. So, when an actor/actress dies, I’m sad and disappointed, but in the same way that I’m disappointed when a good restaurant closes - it’s too bad, but there are lots of other places to eat.

Really, if every copy of all artistic work, movie, etc. ever made were suddenly and irretrievably vaporized, I wouldn’t be that bothered by it. Annoyed, yes, but not all that sad about it. But I would be deeply sad and depressed if we lost things like this:

1. The Grand Canyon, or any National Park.
2. The night sky (e.g. due to light pollution).
3. Sports cars
4. Dogs - I was crushed as a kid when one of the “Planet of the Apes” movies had me worried that dogs were going to go extinct.
5. Any major species of animal in general - e.g. polar bears.

[thelurkinghorror]

@SciFiSam

It just occurred to me - you’re religious; do you believe in life after death, at least a bit? I wonder if that makes a difference. To me those people aren’t going on somewhere nice, they’ve lost the world. Carrie Fisher will never find out how her last film is received, will never meet any grandchildren she has, will never go to rehab again. If you believe in an afterlife that’s not true.

I’ve had a lot of personal loss this year too and that’s left a wound that’s easy for other losses to reopen.

I don’t think religious belief means that you think that she’ll be watching Star Wars XIV on a big screen TV in heaven.

[SciFiSam]

@thelurkinghorror

I don’t think religious belief means that you think that she’ll be watching Star Wars XIV on a big screen TV in heaven.

I didn’t say that. I specifically asked if he believed in an afterlife. Many people who do then (fairly reasonably) believe that this afterlife includes knowledge of events after your death and eventual reunion with loved ones. Also, heaven without movies would be pretty dull so maybe they do get to see it if they want to!

[Aji_de_Gallina]

@SciFiSam

It just occurred to me - you’re religious; do you believe in life after death, at least a bit? I wonder if that makes a difference. To me those people aren’t going on somewhere nice, they’ve lost the world. Carrie Fisher will never find out how her last film is received, will never meet any grandchildren she has, will never go to rehab again. If you believe in an afterlife that’s not true.

I’ve had a lot of personal loss this year too and that’s left a wound that’s easy for other losses to reopen.

Yes, I do. Also, she might go somewhere really nasty.

If there is no afterlife, there is no Carrie Fischer anymore; she can’t “lose the world” because there is no more world. We shouldn’t feel sad for her.

[cochrane]

There is no “c” in Fisher.

[aldiboronti]

There’s sad and there’s sad. Sure, you don’t feel the intense sadness of the death of a loved one but you can feel sad that a particular celebrity you admired had passed away. It’s just a question of degrees of sadness.

[DKW]

If it’s someone who lived a full life and never realistically had any chance of producing any new work, or if said work was readily replaceable, I don’t feel much of anything. Sure, the way Michael Jackson passed was a bit shady, but his pop icon days were way behind him. Sure, it’s a shame Reggie Lewis was cut down in the prime of his life through no fault of his own, but it’s not like we’re going to run out of basketball players anytime soon.

If it’s someone who I feel had a negative influence on his or her field, I just try to distance myself. Take Whitney Houston, who not only normalized loud, shrieky, bombastic bellowing (and paved the way for the absolutely execrable Mariah Carey…honestly, Dreamlover was about a thousand times more offensive than anything the Dixie Chicks ever did) but nearly steamrolled every other style of singing out of female pop entirely. I find two of her songs tolerable, I Wanna Dance With Somebody and How Will I Know, and everything else I can’t even think about without getting convulsions. When she died, I made a small comment about how Borders Books and Music wasn’t around to give her a last hurrah and pretty much left it at that.

If it’s someone whose work I admired and had a big influence on my life…well, bummer, but there are people who depend on me and I can’t afford to get choked up. (That’s also why I didn’t follow the recent Presidential election too closely.) No better example than Joe Dever, author of the greatest gamebook series of all time, in length, richness, and breadth of scope. He’d taken a long hiatus for some reason but had gotten back, and he’d just finish the first of the last four books. And now he’s dead. It’s almost impossible to even think of someone else taking up the reins and completing such an epic series…but at some point that’s exactly what has to happen, and I have enough entertainment options that I needn’t…and shouldn’t…excessively lament the passing of a literary great.

But YMMV, it takes all kinds, etc. The one death whose response totally baffles me to this day is Princess Diana. Okay, look, Anglophiles and regiphiles (did I get that right) exist, Diana had been a People magazine regular for ages, Britain’s a fairly big world player, she had the whole fairytale thing going for her, I get that. And of course it’s always a tragedy when someone dies too soon. I expected a PRETTY big response, on the level of, say, a respected former governor or a successful Division I basketball coach. Instead I saw an end-of-the-universe mega-bonanza blowout. I’d never seen such a colossal emotional response to anything! For crying out loud, Elton John butchered his Marylin Monroe tribute song (which he’d previously butchered for a boy who died of AIDS) for her! And all throughout the spectacle of spectacles, I kept asking myself: What did she do to deserve this? Going through a messy divorce? Denouncing land mines? Producing an heir? Were these really worth a more lavish sendoff than most emperors got?

[panache45]

The first time I saw Singin’ in the Rain was in 1952, when the film had just come out. I was seven, and my parents had taken me to see it in a theater. All I remember was being totally amazed when they danced over the sofa. I went home and tried it, with much less success.

An entertainer like Debbie Reynolds had added so much joy to my life over the years, as did other actors, artists, musicians, authors, etc. When they’re alive, they add real value to our lives, making us more than we’d be without them. Once they’re gone, our world is diminished. We don’t get quite as much joy from the world. It’s not enough to see or hear them in recordings, we know that they’ll never again be around to give us something new. That’s why we mourn their passing.

[ThelmaLou]

@DKW

…there are people who depend on me and I can’t afford to get choked up…

I don’t understand this statement.

…The one death whose response totally baffles me to this day is Princess Diana…

Princess Diana was loved.

[Skara_Brae]

Maybe the OP is talking about an extreme level of grief?

I mean, it’s one thing to be sad for a few days, and shed some tears while watching the funeral or memorial on TV.

But then there are the people that drove to Graceland (from quite a distance away) after Elvis Presley died. People who flew to England so they could stand in the street and watch Princess Diana’s coffin pass. To a lesser extent, a friend of mine was so upset over Bowie’s death she called in sick to work. I do admit, I have a bit of trouble understanding that level of grief.

[cochrane]

@Skara_Brae

Maybe the OP is talking about an extreme level of grief?

I mean, it’s one thing to be sad for a few days, and shed some tears while watching the funeral or memorial on TV.

But then there are the people that drove to Graceland (from quite a distance away) after Elvis Presley died. People who flew to England so they could stand in the street and watch Princess Diana’s coffin pass. To a lesser extent, a friend of mine was so upset over Bowie’s death she called in sick to work. I do admit, I have a bit of trouble understanding that level of grief.

I can understand this. I was sad when Glenn Frey died and listened to Eagles music all day, but I wasn’t moved to drive to Winslow, Arizona just to stand on the corner.

[Aji_de_Gallina]

@DKW

If it’s someone who lived a full life and never realistically had any chance of producing any new work, or if said work was readily replaceable, I don’t feel much of anything. Sure, the way Michael Jackson passed was a bit shady, but his pop icon days were way behind him. Sure, it’s a shame Reggie Lewis was cut down in the prime of his life through no fault of his own, but it’s not like we’re going to run out of basketball players anytime soon.

If it’s someone who I feel had a negative influence on his or her field, I just try to distance myself. Take Whitney Houston, who not only normalized loud, shrieky, bombastic bellowing (and paved the way for the absolutely execrable Mariah Carey…honestly, Dreamlover was about a thousand times more offensive than anything the Dixie Chicks ever did) but nearly steamrolled every other style of singing out of female pop entirely. I find two of her songs tolerable, I Wanna Dance With Somebody and How Will I Know, and everything else I can’t even think about without getting convulsions. When she died, I made a small comment about how Borders Books and Music wasn’t around to give her a last hurrah and pretty much left it at that.

If it’s someone whose work I admired and had a big influence on my life…well, bummer, but there are people who depend on me and I can’t afford to get choked up. (That’s also why I didn’t follow the recent Presidential election too closely.) No better example than Joe Dever, author of the greatest gamebook series of all time, in length, richness, and breadth of scope. He’d taken a long hiatus for some reason but had gotten back, and he’d just finish the first of the last four books. And now he’s dead. It’s almost impossible to even think of someone else taking up the reins and completing such an epic series…but at some point that’s exactly what has to happen, and I have enough entertainment options that I needn’t…and shouldn’t…excessively lament the passing of a literary great.

But YMMV, it takes all kinds, etc. The one death whose response totally baffles me to this day is Princess Diana. Okay, look, Anglophiles and regiphiles (did I get that right) exist, Diana had been a People magazine regular for ages, Britain’s a fairly big world player, she had the whole fairytale thing going for her, I get that. And of course it’s always a tragedy when someone dies too soon. I expected a PRETTY big response, on the level of, say, a respected former governor or a successful Division I basketball coach. Instead I saw an end-of-the-universe mega-bonanza blowout. I’d never seen such a colossal emotional response to anything! For crying out loud, Elton John butchered his Marylin Monroe tribute song (which he’d previously butchered for a boy who died of AIDS) for her! And all throughout the spectacle of spectacles, I kept asking myself: What did she do to deserve this? Going through a messy divorce? Denouncing land mines? Producing an heir? Were these really worth a more lavish sendoff than most emperors got?

Agreed

@panache45

The first time I saw Singin’ in the Rain was in 1952, when the film had just come out. I was seven, and my parents had taken me to see it in a theater. All I remember was being totally amazed when they danced over the sofa. I went home and tried it, with much less success.

An entertainer like Debbie Reynolds had added so much joy to my life over the years, as did other actors, artists, musicians, authors, etc. When they’re alive, they add real value to our lives, making us more than we’d be without them. Once they’re gone, our world is diminished. We don’t get quite as much joy from the world. It’s not enough to see or hear them in recordings, we know that they’ll never again be around to give us something new. That’s why we mourn their passing.

Sorry, it’s not like Debbie Reynolds was producing anything of special value in the last years.
Why is your world diminished? Nothing she did is gone. You’re mourning the possibility of another important artistic contribution, not an actual fact. YMMV, but I don’t get it.

@ThelmaLou

I don’t understand this statement.

It means he has better, more important things to do that get sad about David Bowie’s death.

Princess Diana was loved.

I think his point is “why was she loved?”. What did she do other than being glamorous, marrying a prince, and having kids. Yeah, the landmines thing is great, but people loved her the same before it.

@Skara_Brae

Maybe the OP is talking about an extreme level of grief?

I mean, it’s one thing to be sad for a few days, and shed some tears while watching the funeral or memorial on TV.

But then there are the people that drove to Graceland (from quite a distance away) after Elvis Presley died. People who flew to England so they could stand in the street and watch Princess Diana’s coffin pass. To a lesser extent, a friend of mine was so upset over Bowie’s death she called in sick to work. I do admit, I have a bit of trouble understanding that level of grief.

Yes. Feeling sad I get. Calling in sick because because Alan Rickman died, I don’t.

[Aji_de_Gallina]

Two more things.

Reading a thread about Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds I am now supposed to say they are beautiful and role models who didn’t care how they looked.
DR aged well.
CR aged like crap. I was massively surprised that she was 60. There’s nothing wrong about looking bad, I’m no underwear model myself, but saying she was beautiful is wrong,

The second one is this: Not everyone goes to heaven. Being a great drummer or actress doesn’t mean you get a free pass, and in many cases we know their lives weren’t heaven material inmost religions that have one.

[Martini_Enfield]

@Aji_de_Gallina

Reading a thread about Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds I am now supposed to say they are beautiful and role models who didn’t care how they looked.
DR aged well.
CR aged like crap. I was massively surprised that she was 60. There’s nothing wrong about looking bad, I’m no underwear model myself, but saying she was beautiful is wrong.

I think a lot of that is from the general principle of not speaking ill of the dead, combined with beauty being in the eye of the beholder. I don’t think the late Ms Fisher was unattractive.

Also “Beautiful” covers more than just physical attractiveness now - the term seems to apply to inner beauty and character qualities too.

The second one is this: Not everyone goes to heaven. Being a great drummer or actress doesn’t mean you get a free pass, and in many cases we know their lives weren’t heaven material inmost religions that have one.

That presumes people believe in an afterlife - plenty of non-religious folks think death is simply Game Over, regardless of how good or bad you were in life.

[Penfeather]

@Aji_de_Gallina

Two more things.

Reading a thread about Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds I am now supposed to say they are beautiful and role models who didn’t care how they looked.
DR aged well.
CR aged like crap. I was massively surprised that she was 60. There’s nothing wrong about looking bad, I’m no underwear model myself, but saying she was beautiful is wrong,

You must be a blast at funerals.

[monstro]

I think it was when Michael Jackson died when I started to really understand the mourning over celebrities.

I’m not going to lie. I bawled when David Bowie died. It was a delayed reaction thing. Two or three days had gone by, and I was watching the music video to “Cat People.” And then right out of the blue, I started crying. Loud braying sobs. I always thought only foolish attention-whorish people do stuff like that. So I was a little embarrassed at myself.

I know I didn’t know Bowie personally, but I still loved what he represented. Even if I just knew his persona and not the “real” him, his persona was enough. I think the sadness comes with knowing that despite all his greatness, he was a mere mortal. Also, there’s sadness in realizing that I will never get to meet him, shake his hand, and thank him for helping to make my life more bearable.

[splatterpunk]

@Penfeather

You must be a blast at funerals.

And at any other gathering of these indecipherable hyoo-mans.

[Penfeather]

@splatterpunk

And at any other gathering of these indecipherable hyoo-mans.

This thesis upon the deceased being both beautiful and beloved by all is both inaccurate and incomplete, and the conclusion, that our lives are the lesser for her passing, was not supported by the evidence presented. Clearly the eulogist has stinted upon his research and misinterpreted the available facts to present a shoddy and incomplete account of her life. Overall a lacklustre and unconvincing piece of work, and I suggest a thorough revision and a total rewrite. Now, where’s the buffet?

[Aji_de_Gallina]

@Martini_Enfield

I think a lot of that is from the general principle of not speaking ill of the dead, combined with beauty being in the eye of the beholder. I don’t think the late Ms Fisher was unattractive.

Also “Beautiful” covers more than just physical attractiveness now - the term seems to apply to inner beauty and character qualities too.

At least, in the thread, it was about physical characteristics.

That presumes people believe in an afterlife - plenty of non-religious folks think death is simply Game Over, regardless of how good or bad you were in life.

I know, but there’s lots of “she’s in a better place now”, even in a place like the SDMB.

@Penfeather

You must be a blast at funerals.

I kill, man, I kill.

@splatterpunk

And at any other gathering of these indecipherable hyoo-mans.

You should see me at baptisms.

@Penfeather

This thesis upon the deceased being both beautiful and beloved by all is both inaccurate and incomplete, and the conclusion, that our lives are the lesser for her passing, was not supported by the evidence presented. Clearly the eulogist has stinted upon his research and misinterpreted the available facts to present a shoddy and incomplete account of her life. Overall a lacklustre and unconvincing piece of work, and I suggest a thorough revision and a total rewrite. Now, where’s the buffet?

Agreed.

[SciFiSam]

“Agreed?” I hope you’re not serious (the person you’re agreeing with wasn’t).