# I Cast You to Hades - Or, how did Ancient Greeks Swear? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 28, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cast-you-to-hades-or-how-did-ancient-greeks-swear/236944 "2004-03-28T18:15:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cast-you-to-hades-or-how-did-ancient-greeks-swear/236944/1 "2004-03-28T18:15:53Z")
I’m going to make the (possibly unwarranted) assumption that the normal everyday meaning of curse words like “damn” and “hell” come from Christian notions. “Damn you to hell” has a particular meaning for a Christian that a Shinto would not get. And therefore not use. So, are there any equivalents from pre-Christian literature? Though euphemism the word comes from the Greek, the Greek writers themselves were not shy when it came to the real world. Is there anything in Homer or the Greek plays or Plato or any of the less usual suspects that is the equivalent of swearing or cursing? And if there is, how does it translate into English? ---
**Author:** ![owlofcreamcheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@owlofcreamcheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlofcreamcheese)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cast-you-to-hades-or-how-did-ancient-greeks-swear/236944/2 "2004-03-28T19:12:41Z")
almost every culture has some form of “I have sex with you” or “sex with you” or “sex you” as an insult. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cast-you-to-hades-or-how-did-ancient-greeks-swear/236944/3 "2004-03-28T19:28:58Z")
By Herakles! You smell like the Aegean Stables Testicles! ---
**Author:** ![Kjetil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc8723/32.png) [@Kjetil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kjetil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cast-you-to-hades-or-how-did-ancient-greeks-swear/236944/4 "2004-03-28T20:02:42Z")
> [@owlofcreamcheese](#): > > almost every culture has some form of “I have sex with you” or “sex with you” or “sex you” as an insult. I’ve been thinking hard about it for fifteen minutes and can’t think of any common swearword like the word that rhymes with stuck in Norwegian (or, as far as I know, Danish or Swedish), for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cast-you-to-hades-or-how-did-ancient-greeks-swear/236944/5 "2004-03-28T20:39:52Z")
> [@Kjetil](#): > > I’ve been thinking hard about it for fifteen minutes and can’t think of any common swearword like the word that rhymes with stuck in Norwegian (or, as far as I know, Danish or Swedish), for what it’s worth. Same in Swedish, sexual swear words are almost non-existant (although gaining in popularity). The closest I could come was “ta dig i arslet” which I thought meant “take yourself in the ass”, but the mrs says it means “touch your ass”… Very strange lot. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cast-you-to-hades-or-how-did-ancient-greeks-swear/236944/6 "2004-03-28T21:11:18Z")
Some time ago, I had to do a pit thread to an ancient Greek named doper; here are some insults and curses that I found on the way to a very well researched roast: [http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/aeschines-embassy.html](http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/aeschines-embassy.html) > [@](#): > > [2.42] When I had added my testimony, saying something like this, that Philip had shown excellent memory in his reply to what we had said, and when Ctesiphon, who was the oldest of us, speaking of his own advanced age and the number of his years, added that in all his many years he had never looked upon so charming and lovable a man, then this Sisyphus [1] here clapped his hands and said, > > \*1. A proverbial name for a cheat. Insults in those days were also associated to class: [http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/book1/fr/finleyodysseus\_2.htm](http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/book1/fr/finleyodysseus_2.htm) > [@](#): > > In the third chapter, Finley looks at class structure. Although Homer doesn’t mention commoners very often, there were skilled craftsmen, and slaves, who were mainly women. Below them were the lowest of the low, the thetes. This is an odd concept for us who believe anything is better than being a slave, but freedom to the ancient Greeks without belonging to a household (oikos) was empty. While the nobles knew how and were capable of doing all the household work and animal husbandry, not having to do so was important for their status. Thus, Odysseus was insulted to be called a merchant. But, I see that you are looking specifically for curses: Back then, one consulted, blamed, summoned and wished for the god of the underworld: [http://www.angelfire.com/nj/persephone/bookiliad.html](http://www.angelfire.com/nj/persephone/bookiliad.html) > [@](#): > > Similarly, stories of Hades are told, notably how he was injured by Hercules in some battle of the Gods and had to return to Olympus to get it treated. Also, it’s mentioned that to curse someone, one strikes the ground and prays to Hades. Hades is seen not as evil, but as a force that cannot be denied—only put off. And a force to be feared and dreaded. Death will come, unfortunate as it is, and any sane person puts off the inevitable as long as possible. So, go to Haides! 😉 For more info, that is… [http://www.theoi.com/Kronos/Haides.html](http://www.theoi.com/Kronos/Haides.html) > [@](#): > > HAIDES GOD OF NEKROMANKIA & CURSES > > Haides was invoked and propitiated in the magic of Nekromankia (the summoning of ghosts) and the darkest of curses (often summoning forth the wrathful Erinyes). He was also invoked in the most solemn of oaths to curse the swearer if he broke his pledge. > > “[Phineos swears an oath]: ‘By the Powers below [presumably Haides, Persephone and the Erinyes] – and may they blast me if I die forsworn – that you will not incur the wrath of Heaven by helping me.” –Argonautica 2.259 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cast-you-to-hades-or-how-did-ancient-greeks-swear/236944/7 "2004-03-28T22:29:07Z")
Thanks, **GIGObuster** , for all the research. That’s the sort of thing I was looking for. No wrath of heaven for you! ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cast-you-to-hades-or-how-did-ancient-greeks-swear/236944/8 "2004-03-28T22:57:46Z")
Oedipus, what’s happening m_F_? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-cast-you-to-hades-or-how-did-ancient-greeks-swear/236944/9 "2004-03-28T23:46:01Z")
I googled “ancient Greek” “swear words” and found one page by someone who used a weird transliteration that was hard to read, so I took the trouble of re-editing the words to make them legible. bineein: v. “to fuck” ex: "binetiomen (been-ay-tee-aAw-men), “we need a fuck” –Aristophanes, Lysistrata katapugonesteros: adj. “hornier” ex: katapugonesteros eimi Sokratou (kata-pugaaw-nester-os ay-mee Saaw-krah-too), “I am hornier than Socrates” –ibid. kinein: v. “to screw” (kee-nayn) –ibid. olibos: n. “dildo” –ibid. painein: v. “to bang” (pay-nayn) –ibid. posthe: n. “cock” (pohst-hay) The Liddell and Scott lexicon glosses it in Latin, so it has to be a naughty word. sakandros: n. “twat” (sak-an-dros) –ibid. hussakos (I’m not sure of the gender): n. “pork pie” (vagina). ex: kalos hussakos esti Sapphoi (hoo-sak-os estee Sap-hoi) “Sappho has a nice pork pie” –ibid. psole: n. “erection” (psaah-lay) (note: from the best I can tell, this refers to such an erection that the foreskin has entirely retracted–a colloquial translation may be: world-class hard-on, superection, and the like) –ibid. Note: I kind of lied when I said there were no words like “jackass” or “asshole”. I’ve come across that seems to be related with being un-Greek. barbaros: n. “barbarian”. This is the term for all non-Greeks. It is both technical and pejorative, like the Japanese “gaijin”. Calling a Greek person a “barbaros” would most likely have been a grave insult, like calling an American a Commie. [http://www.straightacting.com/profiles/show.php?member=007](http://www.straightacting.com/profiles/show.php?member=007) Also: As he promises to do in the general introduction of the volume (p. 30), H. preserves Aristophanic obscenity intact and he invariably finds the English equivalent to convey the force and humor of the original (e.g., “peos” = “cock”, p. 48; “binein” = " to fuck", p. 66; “hyssakos” = “hair-pie”, p. 77). H. is correct, in my view, to insist that these texts be represented honestly, and he is careful to remind readers that obscenity and outrageousness are traditional ingredients of the genre. [http://omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/mailing\_lists/BMCR-L/Mirror/1997/97.10.10.html](http://omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/mailing_lists/BMCR-L/Mirror/1997/97.10.10.html)