# I Claudius, is it true ?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [October 12, 2001, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983 "2001-10-12T04:46:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/1 "2001-10-12T04:46:27Z")
Was just reading a thread about Caligula, which of course drifted off into a discussion about porno, and it got me wondering about something I didn’t jump up and research myself. I was hoping somebody else already had, to save me the time !
How closely is the novel, “I, Claudius” and it’s sequel “Claudius the God” based on fact ? I’m assuming that the conversations are fiction, but the actual sequence of events (including some of the crazy things done by Caligula, i.e voting his horse to become a Consul) is based on facts. Is this true, or has the author been a little too liberal with history ?
[sub] Please no comments about “Caligula” the movie. From what I’ve heard, I’ll never go and see it ! [/sub]
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### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/2 "2001-10-12T05:14:19Z")
It’s a long time since my school days but I recall that Graves’ book was very faithful to Tacitus’ “Annals of Imperial Rome”. It is a great book and was recently selected as one of the 100 best books of the 20th Century.
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/3 "2001-10-12T05:16:17Z")
Robert Graves had an impressive knowledge of ancient myth and history, although a lot of his interpretations are his alone.
That said, his Claudius books are based pretty closely on ancient sources, chiefly Suetonius’ book **The Twelve Caesars** , supplemented by a _lot_ of other sources. (Graves brided at the suggestion that all he did was rewrite Suetonius. He didn’t, of course.)But his interpretation of vents was definitely his own. Was Claudius a rational person hiding as an idiot out of a sense of self-preservation? Who knows? But Claudius _did_ hold on for a long time, so perhaps Graves was onto somethng. See Michael Grant’s book, also called **The Twelve Caesars**.
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### Author:  [@King\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Rat)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/4 "2001-10-12T05:25:57Z")
Oh, goody. A thread about two of my favorite books, and of course lets throw in the TV mini-series with Derek Jacobi. How certain can we be of events that took place 100 years ago, let alone two thousand years ago? I think that Robert Graves was attemping to make history accesible in the form of Claudius “writing” his autobiography. To go point-by-point of what is scholarly fact vs. literary embellishment would really take a long time, I think. Try “The Twelve Caesars” by Suetonius. As Derek Jacobi said as Claudius at the begining of episode 10 or so, "If what I am about to say seems incredible…believe it…BELIEVE IT. (Example: Caligula slicing open his pregnant-by-him sister’s womb so he could eat the fetus, and therefore duplicate a Greek legend about Zeus or some other God doing the same thing, fearing that the child would become greater than him. [http://www.roman-britain.org/people/claudius.htm](http://www.roman-britain.org/people/claudius.htm)
There are interesting encyclopedia entries on the various players besides the emperors–Sejanus, Livia, Germanicus, Messalina, etc.
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### Author:  [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/5 "2001-10-12T05:57:34Z")
My understanding is that Graves studied Claudius very closely, and virtually everything could have been true. Obviously Claudius’ reliance on the sybil prophecies is an embellishment, as well as this all supposedly being Claudius’ diary. I’ve heard complaints that there is no way that Livia poisoned Augustus (brilliantly played by Brian Blessed).
This was, as I’ve said elsewhere, one of the best things ever to appear on television.
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### Author:  [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/6 "2001-10-12T06:08:40Z")
As I loved these two books, I’m now going to race out and check out \*\* “The Twelve Caesers” \*\* thanks for the tip, \*\* CalMeacham.\*\*
\*\*King Rat, \*\*thanks for the interesting link
and \*\* DPWhite \*\*I might go and check out the movie, even though this normally spoils the book !
Thanks for the help guys 😃
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### Author:  [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/7 "2001-10-12T09:21:12Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by King Rat \*
> \*\* (Example: Caligula slicing open his pregnant-by-him sister’s womb so he could eat the fetus, and therefore duplicate a Greek legend about Zeus or some other God doing the same thing, fearing that the child would become greater than him. \*\*
This only appears in the TV series, it’s not in Graves’ book (that just says that Drusilla died in mysterious circumstances), and I don’t know where it came from. (Some “disgusted-of-Tunbridge-Wells” type actually wrote to the _Radio Times_ at the time the series was first broadcast, complaining that this scene was unhistorical and gratuitous. On the other hand, my next-door neighbour at the time complained that they cut to the closing credits before the door swung all the way open, so he didn’t get to see the mangled corpse… lots of room for diversity of opinion, isn’t there?)
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### Author:  [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/8 "2001-10-12T11:21:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Goo \*
> \*\*and \*\* DPWhite \*\*I might go and check out the movie, even though this normally spoils the book ! \*\*
You may have time to finish the book before watching the entire 12 hours of the mini-series. Where I am it’s horrendously difficult to find it available for rent. I’ve recently only seen it available online and in a DVD boxset (which I couldn’t help but buy).
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### Author:  [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/9 "2001-10-12T11:52:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \*
>
> \*\*You may have time to finish the book before watching the entire 12 hours of the mini-series. \*\*
I have read the book \*\*I, Claudius \*\*at least 6 or 7 times, and **Claudius The God** 2 or 3 times, so I _can_ afford to wait while I search for the video, but thanks for the warning about it being difficult to find, **Crunchy Frog.** Are you in the U.S.A ? Or Britain ? From memory the BBC produced these films, so if you are in Britain, and have found it difficult, I’m going to have some fun trying to find it Down Under. At least it’s probably not a high demand video, like Titanic :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/10 "2001-10-12T12:24:23Z")
The [BBC UK website](http://www.bbc.co.uk) offers a boxed video set of _I Claudius_ for £35 plus postage & packing. Scroll down to _BBC Shop_ for details of the full product range.
This site will only accept orders from the UK and other EU countries. There is a link to [http://www.bbcproducts.com](http://www.bbcproducts.com) from which site the BBC states that it is possible for US customers to buy BBC products. There is currently a problem accessing this site.
There seems to be no direct way for Australians, or indeed anyone from another continent, to buy from the BBC at the moment.
I did not seen a DVD boxed set, as bought by **Crunchy Frog** , advertised on the BBC UK website.
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### Author:  [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/11 "2001-10-12T16:21:00Z")
I have the DVD boxed set. I do like it, but I don’t looooove it. So if anyone is interested, I’d be willing to sell it cheap. Anyone?
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### Author:  [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/12 "2001-10-12T17:06:57Z")
You should be aware that alot of this stuff, especially about Caligula, is gossip.
It’s _authentic_ gossip from the time period, mind you, but there’s very little supporting evidence for some of it.
But the thing with the horse (he was a Senator, not Consul, Claudius ros eto power and removed him powerful it was his turn for the position) is true, at least. I’ve heard at least one hostorian suggest that the equine appointee was a barbed expression of Caligula’s opinion of the senate (like writing Mickey Mouse on a ballot), and not out-and-out insanity.
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### Author:  [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/13 "2001-10-12T22:51:39Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Nostradamus \*
> \*\*I did not seen a DVD boxed set, as bought by **Crunchy Frog** , advertised on the BBC UK website. \*\*
I’m in the USA to answer **Goo’s** question. I found the box set at Best Buy. I dn’t know what’s available on the site that **Nostradamus** posted. I only knew it was available on that site because I once asked (on these very boards) where I could get a copy of the mini-series.
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### Author:  [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/14 "2001-10-13T00:11:18Z")
I’ve never seen the TV series (which _everyone_ assures me is excellent), but man what a powerful book. The description of Caligula as a child is one of those things that will always stay with me. And that Livia, I think I know her… 😃
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### Author:  [@Guy\_Propski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Propski)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/15 "2001-10-13T12:52:40Z")
There are a couple of translations of Suetonius’ “The Tweleve Caesars”, but the best is by (surprise!) Robert Graves. I don’t know if he did the translation before or after I,C.
As to historical accuracy, I remember Asimov pointing out in his “Chronological History of the World” that a lot of the facts in the 12C were probably just gossip being passed off as facts. For example, I am unaware of any historical evidence as to whether Tiberius really liked to have naked boys swim around him and nibble at his legs.
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### Author:  [@toshirodragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toshirodragon)
#### Post date: [October 13, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-claudius-is-it-true/86983/16 "2001-10-13T14:21:54Z")
I just read a book called “Sexual Variance in Society and Culture” by Vern L. Bullough. Bullough points on in the section about Ancient Rome that Nero may or may not have been depraved by we certainly had a laundry list of what Suetonius CONSIDERED DEPRAVED behavior.