# "I, Clavdivs" questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 20, 2000, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518 "2000-12-20T14:45:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![retsin2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@retsin2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/retsin2000)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/1 "2000-12-20T14:45:32Z")
I just finished watching the BBC miniseries [_I, Clavdivs_](http://www.historyinfilm.com/claudius/). At the end of the last episode the Sibyl foretells that Nero will be a bad ruler and that he will be the last Claudian emperor. So is this an anachronism? Did the Julio-Claudians think of themselves as Claudians already or was that term coined by historians later? ---
**Author:** ![retsin2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@retsin2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/retsin2000)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/2 "2000-12-20T14:48:37Z")
Oops. I forgot about vbcode in subject lines. Sorry about that. If a mod felt like cleaning that up at some point it would be much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/3 "2000-12-20T16:37:02Z")
More or less. I’ll assume that the Roman naming scheme is clear to the Teeming Thousands (actually, I’m not sure that it was clear to the _Romans_, but hope springs eternal…), so suffice to say that when Augustus (Octavian) married Livia, she was very recently divorced from one, Ti. Claudius Nero, father of another Ti. Claudius Nero (the later emperor Tiberius I), and of Nero Claudius Drusus[sup]1[/sup] Germanicus (father of Ti. Claudius Nero Drusus (Claudius I) and grandfather of C. Claudius Nero Germanicus (Caligula or, as he was known anciently, Gaius), among others). So, the middle three emperors _were_ Claudii, and probably thought of themselves as such, although not with the same import that it means to us moderns. It’s _Julio-Claudian_ that’s the synthetic term, a reminder that the first five emperors were linked by ties of adoption and (in some cases) blood to C. Julius Caesar, whose mystique the early emperors desperately wanted to take part in, so much so that, although Nero _was_ the last emperor who could claim that connection, later emperors still used the name “Caesar” until it became a title. [sup]1[/sup][sub] The name Drusus, incidentally, comes from his mother’s family, the _gens Livia_[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![retsin2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@retsin2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/retsin2000)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/4 "2000-12-20T17:00:21Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/5 "2000-12-20T17:35:11Z")
_I, Claudius_ was on!!! And I missed it! ARRRGGHHH! Allow me to strongly endorse the book. It’s wonderful as well. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/6 "2000-12-20T17:35:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Akatsukami \* > \*\*suffice to say that when Augustus (Octavian) married Livia, she was very recently divorced from one, Ti. Claudius Nero, \*\* And, to make things interesting, Augustus’ wife Livia Drusa was the niece (or was it grand-niece? I forget) of Servilla Caepeona, who was the mother of Marcus Junius Brutus (who was the “et tu Brute” Brutus of Shakespeare. Servilla was also one of Caesar’s lovers, which caused a major scandal, especially because his daughter was betrothed to her son. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/7 "2000-12-20T17:53:43Z")
Also, I’m not going to assume that the Roman naming system is clear to everybody, because it’s possible that some people might not know it. (And, those of you who know it better than I, please correct me) Every Roman had a nomen, which is a family name, so you could talk about the Julia, Cornellia, Maria, Junia, etc. So, a man in the family Julia would have the name Julius…it served the same way that a last name serves today. Men also had a prenomen, which was sort of similar to a first name, like Gaius, Marcus, etc. So, taking the example above, our individual might be named Gaius Julius. But, which Gaius Julius? To solve that problem, there was something called the cognomen, which doesn’t have an exact English counterpart, but could be called a nickname. Some cognomens were passed on from father to son, others were gained by the individual. Some of these include Caesar (prob. means curly haired), Pius (devoted) Africanus (African), Strabo (Cross-eyed), etc. So, the individual above, being of the Julia Caesares, has the neme Gaius Julius Caesar. His friends call him Caesar, everybody else calls him Gaius Julius. People could string on cognomens, and an influential Roman probably had a few. Interestingly, we also use their cognomens when talking about them. You hear about Caesar, and Cato, and Cicero, and Nero. ---
**Author:** ![retsin2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@retsin2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/retsin2000)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/8 "2000-12-20T18:53:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Frankd6 \* > \*\*_I, Claudius_ was on!!! And I missed it! ARRRGGHHH! > > Allow me to strongly endorse the book. It’s wonderful as well. \*\* Actually, no. I rented the DVD from [netflix.](http://www.netflix.com) I love their service by the way. Also, it is available at our local library on VHS. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/9 "2000-12-20T19:04:18Z")
Vericosus - Warty Mus - The Mouse Scaevola - Lefty (so named after he lost his right hand) Pulcher - Beautiful (only given to spectacularly ugly Romans) Cunctator - The Delayer. Given to Fabius, the general who badgered Hannibal without ever drawing battle. Caecus - Blind. Self-explanatory. Cicero - Already mentioned, it refers to a particular kind of bean. Rotundus - Just kidding 😉 MR ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/10 "2000-12-20T20:17:25Z")
We can’t forget Ovid’s cognomen, Naso (the Nose). ---
**Author:** ![DRY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@DRY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DRY)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/11 "2000-12-21T06:08:20Z")
First of all, I believe **Akatsukami** has it right as far as the OP goes. (I really have no idea, of course, whether Claudius identified more with being Claudian or Julio-Claudian). Incidentally, there is, to the best of my knowledge, no historical basis for believing that Claudius actually has republican sympathies, as he does in the mini-series. [sub]to say nothing of Livia’s proclivity for killing[/sub] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Frankd6 \* > \*\*_I, Claudius_ was on!!! And I missed it! ARRRGGHHH! > > Allow me to strongly endorse the book. It’s wonderful as well. \*\* It should be remembered that, to follow along with the duration of the mini-series’ events, one must also read **Claudius the God** in addition to **I, Claudius**. The first book only covers events leading up to Claudius’s coronation (I think, I’m posting this from memory. Been years since I read the book.) The books are indeed great–I strongly endorse them as well. As for the mini-series, I humbly think it’s the greatest of all time. **Maeglin** –I think you’re a fine poster, but if you’re going to mention “Rotundus”, _how on god’s green earth could you forget “Biggus Dickus”_? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/12 "2000-12-21T15:17:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Maeglin–I think you’re a fine poster, but if you’re going to mention “Rotundus”, how on god’s green earth could you forget “Biggus Dickus”? See, **DRY** , I never had Latin in high school, just an excess of it in college. So we skipped the Biggus Dickus and went right to Fabius Sextus Gluteus Maximus Vaginator. 😉 Not a big leap, I’ll admit. Biggus Dickus does have its charm. MR ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/13 "2000-12-21T15:56:01Z")
Separate from historical reality, the book and BBC series “I, Claudius” both adopted modern convention, using only one name for each individual (for example) so that we could keep them straight. Frankly, even then, it’s a chore, and I often forgot who was who or who was related to whom. ---
**Author:** ![retsin2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@retsin2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/retsin2000)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/14 "2000-12-21T16:04:43Z")
[This family tree](http://www.historyinfilm.com/claudius/famtree2.htm) and one that a friend made based on this one were very helpful in keeping everything straight. It gets pretty tricky when everyone starts marrying relatives. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/15 "2000-12-21T17:15:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > \*\*Not a big leap, I’ll admit. Biggus Dickus does have its charm. > \*\* He has a wife, you know . . . ---
**Author:** ![King\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@King\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/16 "2000-12-22T05:09:13Z")
I think that they were all nvts. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/17 "2000-12-22T14:39:27Z")
> [@](#): > > He has a wife, you know . . . Yup. I think her name is Thicka Vulva. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/18 "2000-12-22T14:57:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > He has a wife, you know . . . > > Yup. I think her name is Thicka Vulva. \*\* I’m so disappointed, you non-Monty-Python-quoting heathen! 😉 It’s “Incontinentia” . . . “Incontinentia Buttocks!” ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2000, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/19 "2000-12-22T16:46:55Z")
**WHOOSH** I didn’t catch that one at _all_. You have my sincerest apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518/20 "2000-12-28T00:05:49Z")
Been a while since I read my favourite books or sawe the series. But from what I can recall, most historians did not use the phrase Julio-Claudian. They were simply Julians, Claudians, or members of the “Age of the Five Good Emperors”. Since the Claudians would gain substantial political advantage from invoking the memory of Julius, if this term was used at all it would have been by the less capable Claudians? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs-questions/46518.md?page=2)