# I, Clavdivs **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 18, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665 "2006-12-18T18:37:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/1 "2006-12-18T18:37:45Z")
So I just rewatched [I, Claudius](http://www.amazon.com/I-Claudius-Derek-Jacobi/dp/B00004U12X/sr=1-1/qid=1166466676/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-3639199-4347330?ie=UTF8&s=dvd) (also know in my house as I, Clvdivs or I, Clamdip), following along in my [Suetonius](http://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Caesars-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140449213/sr=1-1/qid=1166466835/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-3639199-4347330?ie=UTF8&s=books), and now I am reading [Robert Graves](http://www.amazon.com/Claudius-Autobiography-Tiberius-D-International/dp/067972477X/sr=1-1/qid=1166466876/ref=sr_1_1/102-3639199-4347330?ie=UTF8&s=books). Can anyone recommend good _non_-fiction on the period and the people? I get the feeling that Suetonius is like _The Weekly World News_: highly entertaining, but with quite an agenda. And Graves is based on Sueutonius. I want to know if Livia and Caligula and others have gotten a bum rap over the years! ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/2 "2006-12-18T18:48:05Z")
Tacitus. Also Plutarch and Livy. (who is, of course, a character in _I Claudius_. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/3 "2006-12-18T18:53:05Z")
This wiki article summarizes what various historians have to say about Livia: > **[Livia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livia)** > > Livia Drusilla (30 January 59 BC – AD 29) was Roman empress from 27 BC to AD 14 as the wife of emperor Augustus. She was known as Julia Augusta after her formal adoption into the Julian family in AD 14. > Livia was the daughter of senator Marcus Livius Drusus Claudianus and his wife Alfidia. She married Tiberius Claudius Nero around 43 BC, and they had two sons, Tiberius and Drusus. In 38 BC, she divorced Tiberius Claudius Nero and married the political leader Octavian. The Senate granted Octavian... ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/4 "2006-12-18T18:53:07Z")
I’d say Tacitus, also. If you’re looking for a straight-up history book, however, (rather than a contemporary’s account), well, there’s always Gibbon. 😃 I’d also like to briefly mention in passing that I, Claudius is based on much more than just Suetonius- in fact, he gets rather snippy about this in the foreword to Claudius the God, pointing out that he consulted a host of original sources. Take that for whatever it’s worth, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/5 "2006-12-18T18:54:20Z")
[bibliophage speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcaligula.html) about Caligula. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/6 "2006-12-18T18:54:52Z")
Vnfortvnately, no matter how mvch thovght I gave it, no. I strvck ovt. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/7 "2006-12-18T18:55:23Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Clam] I’d say Tacitus, also. If you’re looking for a straight-up history book, however, (rather than a contemporary’s account), well, there’s always Gibbon. 😃 [/QUOTE] It’s been a while, but doesn’t Gibbon start at Marcus Aurelius? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/8 "2006-12-18T18:56:30Z")
Has anyone good written _recently_ about them? Like, in the past 25 years or so? As for Wikipedia, I put it somewhere around Suetonius for being interesting but highly dubious factually. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/9 "2006-12-18T19:01:16Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] As for Wikipedia, I put it somewhere around Suetonius for being interesting but highly dubious factually. [/QUOTE] I agree that Wiki needs to be used with a critical eye, but in this case (as I said) it’s a decent summary of what others have said. With cites and everything. Anyone so inclined can use the article as a guide to track down the source material cited. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/10 "2006-12-18T19:03:50Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] Has anyone good written _recently_ about them? Like, in the past 25 years or so? [/QUOTE] Try Michael Grant’s “The Twelve Caesars” - published in 1973, but it’s not like there’s been much new primary source material for a millenium or so. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/11 "2006-12-18T19:06:14Z")
Try Michael Grant’s **The Twelve Caesars**. It’s recent, and very readable, and done by a respectable historian. (My rule of thumb for Graves is to take him with a lot of salt. I’m convinced that he knew the facts, but he has his own ideas about history and mythology that keeps him from repeating them straight.): > **[The Twelve Caesars: Grant, Michael: 9780760700884: Amazon.com: Books](https://www.amazon.com/Twelve-Caesars-Michael-Grant/dp/0760700885)** > > The Twelve Caesars \[Grant, Michael\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Twelve Caesars ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/12 "2006-12-18T19:30:44Z")
Actually, try McCullogh’s (sp?) (terribly titled) Master of Rome ™ series. As I understand it, she went to all the source material and while she’s taken liberties with the narrative, I think all the facts are right. It’s a fun read anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/13 "2006-12-18T19:34:34Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] I, Clavdivs [/QUOTE] Strictly speaking, either “I, CLAVDIVS” or “I, Claudius”. In the Latin alphabet as used by the Ancient Romans, “u” is the lower case form of “V”. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/14 "2006-12-18T19:53:16Z")
Hmmm, Grant seems a little above my heard, from what the reviews say. I wonder if there are any good individual bios of Claudius, Livia, etc., rather than overall histories? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/15 "2006-12-18T20:14:57Z")
I enjoyed _The First Century_ by William Klingaman - a history of (obviously) the first century. It’s not just the Roman imperial family; it also has large sections on early Christianity and China. And Amazon has used copies for just ninety cents. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/16 "2006-12-18T20:18:39Z")
Writes **Eve** : > [@](#): > > Hmmm, Grant seems a little above my heard, from what the reviews say. I wonder if there are any good individual bios of Claudius, Livia, etc., rather than overall histories? What? Grant over the head of our own biographer? Not a chance of it. Grant’s a popular writer. I listened to this one (unabridged) while commuting in my car. It’s not a mass of scholarly footnotes - I think it’ll fit right in with your loves. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/17 "2006-12-18T20:25:01Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] Hmmm, Grant seems a little above my heard, from what the reviews say. I wonder if there are any good individual bios of Claudius, Livia, etc., rather than overall histories? [/QUOTE] Seriously, Grant is a very good writer - it’s a scholarly work but doesn’t read like one. Allan Massie has written some volumes on individual Emperors, but they are novelisations (I think, I haven’t actually read any), but he’s a good and methodical writer usually, so it might be worth checking him out. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/18 "2006-12-18T20:55:24Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] Strictly speaking, either “I, CLAVDIVS” or “I, Claudius”. In the Latin alphabet as used by the Ancient Romans, “u” is the lower case form of “V”. [/QUOTE] And, as we all are aware, VBB converts SHOUTING SOLID CAPS (which I’m sure **Eue** would have used, to Annoying Initial Caps. Vnreasonable it is to think that she would haue made such a greiuious error! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/19 "2006-12-18T22:14:07Z")
We just re-watched the series, too. Fun to catch a very young Patrick Stewart as Sejanus. Anthony A. Barrett wrote _Caligula: The Corruption of Power_ in 1989. I don’t remember whether I thought it was any good, but it is from Yale University Press. It’s got [3.5 stars](http://www.amazon.com/Caligula-Corruption-Power-Anthony-Barrett/dp/0300074298/sr=8-1/qid=1166479984/ref=sr_1_1/102-1926742-3163319?ie=UTF8&s=books)on Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665/20 "2006-12-18T22:20:16Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] And, as we all are aware, VBB converts SHOUTING SOLID CAPS (which I’m sure **Eue** would have used, to Annoying Initial Caps. Vnreasonable it is to think that she would haue made such a greiuious error! 😃 [/QUOTE] Damn software, not keeping up with proper 1st century Latin usage! (Or should I say “softuuare”, since Latin didn’t have a double-u letter?) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-clavdivs/384665.md?page=2)