# I could have beaten Trump, says Obama
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [December 26, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669 "2016-12-26T23:11:14Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/1 "2016-12-26T23:11:14Z")
[Story](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/12/26/president-obama-says-he-would-have-beaten-trump-if-i-had-run-again/)
> [@](#):
>
> President Obama said in an interview released Monday that he could have beaten Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump “if I had run again.” In his most pointed critique yet, Obama said Hillary Clinton’s campaign acted too cautiously out of a mistaken belief that victory was all but certain.
I think he’s right and as a supporter of the Republicans I’m relieved that he couldn’t run against Trump. But my first thought upon seeing this story was, does he really have to stick it to Hillary when she’s down? I’m sure most people (well, except Trump) know that it’s true anyway, but why rub salt in the Clintons’ wound by trumpeting the fact in a major interview?
It almost feels as if Obama still has a major grudge against Hillary and that there’s no love lost between them. Is this a fair appraisal?
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### Author:  [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/2 "2016-12-26T23:53:29Z")
Reads more like it’s trying to provoke Trump in an area that he’s shown a particular insecurity in the past. And it worked:
“President Obama said that he thinks he would have won against me. He should say that but I say NO WAY! - jobs leaving, ISIS, OCare, etc.” - Trump tweet.
Leaving how to parse the word “should” in this statement, Trump, as could easily be predicted, can’t just let it go.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/3 "2016-12-27T00:09:07Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#):
>
> But my first thought upon seeing this story was, does he really have to stick it to Hillary when she’s down? I’m sure most people (well, except Trump) know that it’s true anyway, but why rub salt in the Clintons’ wound by trumpeting the fact in a major interview?
>
> It almost feels as if Obama still has a major grudge against Hillary and that there’s no love lost between them. Is this a fair appraisal?
I guess it could be – but I’d figure the simpler explanation is this: imagine that Obama gets up there in front of everybody to explain that he totally would’ve lost to Trump just like Hillary Clinton did. _“Yeah,”_ he says, _“I have to admit, the American people loved that guy’s message; it really resonated with them.”_
Imagine he keeps opining like that for a good while: specifying that Trump would’ve beaten Bernie Sanders, would’ve beaten Elizabeth Warren; even if Joe Biden had run, even if Al Gore had come out of retirement, it wouldn’t have mattered, because, man, Trump sure knew what the voters wanted to hear, didn’t he?
That’d be demoralizing, right? What’s the takeaway for Dems: your message sucks, so your future campaigns are doomed?
So imagine it the other way around: he declares that he would’ve beaten Trump. He thereby implies, if you want to believe it, that Gore or Biden or Warren or Sanders or, what the heck, Keith Ellison, would’ve wiped the floor with Trump. That’s energizing, right? That’s reassuring and exciting at the same time. That tells Dems, _hey, we have the right message; all we need is the right messenger._
Either way, Clinton lost; what’s better for the Dems to hear: that Clinton lost but others can win, or that Clinton lost and so would anyone else?
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### Author:  [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/4 "2016-12-27T00:15:42Z")
Obama would have gotten more votes than Hillary.
Trump wouldn’t have gotten more votes than Trump.
So, yeah.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/5 "2016-12-27T01:29:00Z")
There were a whole bunch of people, prior to the election, that were confident Hillary would’ve beaten Trump too. I’m not certain Obama would have, but there’s no way to know.
If he was trying to provoke Trump, I don’t know what he hopes to accomplish by doing so. He’s a lame duck and Trump is his successor.
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### Author:  [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/6 "2016-12-27T01:49:54Z")
heh bill would of beat all 3 of them and bush 2 if they’d of all ran when he left office
It was the first time I heard about people wanting to over turn the prez term limit…
someone mentioned to me that she would of had a bigger chance if Michelle had been her running mate … that way they could of said they were keeping barrys legacy alive …
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/7 "2016-12-27T02:04:05Z")
> [@nightshadea](#):
>
> …someone mentioned to me that she would of had a bigger chance if Michelle had been her running mate … that way they could of said they were keeping barrys legacy alive …
The only way I could see Michelle agreeing to something like that would be if her husband had been assassinated.
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/8 "2016-12-27T02:09:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> If he was trying to provoke Trump, I don’t know what he hopes to accomplish by doing so. He’s a lame duck and Trump is his successor.
As long as Trump is stupid enough to respond to provocations such as this, Obama and others should attempt to provoke him.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/9 "2016-12-27T02:31:54Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
>
> As long as Trump is stupid enough to respond to provocations such as this, Obama and others should attempt to provoke him.
To what end? Trump sent a tweet with a typo back. I don’t see what’s been / being accomplished by either side in this.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/10 "2016-12-27T02:37:42Z")
But does he really say that? Go to the [actual interview](http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/politics/axe-files-obama-transcript/) and what he says is:
> [@](#):
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> AXELROD: Which they did.
>
> OBAMA: And – and win back seats in the Senate. And – and so, I understand what happened politically.
>
> Two points I would make though, David, because obviously in the wake of the election and Trump winning, a lot of people have – have suggested that somehow, it really was a fantasy. What I would argue is, is that the culture actually did shift, that the majority does buy into the notion of a one America that is tolerant and diverse and open and – and full of energy and dynamism.
>
> And – and the problem is, it doesn’t always manifest itself in politics, right? You know, I am confident in this vision because I’m confident that if I – if I had run again and articulated it, I think I could’ve mobilized a majority of the American people to rally behind it.
>
> I know that in conversations that I’ve had with people around the country, even some people who disagreed with me, they would say the vision, the direction that you point towards is the right one.
Well, Hillary mobilized a majority of the American people, and she didn’t win.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/11 "2016-12-27T02:41:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Well, Hillary mobilized a majority of the American people, and she didn’t win.
She only won a plurality of the vote.
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### Author:  [@Caldazar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caldazar)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/12 "2016-12-27T02:53:03Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#):
>
> It almost feels as if Obama still has a major grudge against Hillary and that there’s no love lost between them. Is this a fair appraisal?
That was not my interpretation. The podcast and transcript are here, for those that may be interested: [http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/politics/axe-files-obama-transcript/](http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/politics/axe-files-obama-transcript/) . My take is that he is offering advice to Democrats in general on what they need to do better in the future. He praises Clinton in the interview, so I doubt his intent was to kick her while she’s down.
One of the claims made as to why Clinton (and Democrats generally) lost was that the Democratic Party no longer serves the interests of the working and middle classes. Obama was attempting to refute this notion by stating that the Democratic platform, in general, does indeed benefit the working/middle class better than the Republican platform. He’s saying that the Democrats’ flaw was in poor salesmanship, a lack of effort spent advertising and promoting the ideas of the platform. The “if I had run again and articulated it, I think I could’ve mobilized a majority of the American people to rally behind it” was Obama’s belief that he would have been able to successfully communicate “not only the dry policy aspects of this, but that we care about these communities”.
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/13 "2016-12-27T03:09:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> > [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
> >
> > As long as Trump is stupid enough to respond to provocations such as this, Obama and others should attempt to provoke him.
>
> To what end? Trump sent a tweet with a typo back. I don’t see what’s been / being accomplished by either side in this.
Trump should not be responding to provocations, real and imagined, by tweeting constantly. It’s undignified. Plus as president, he’s going to get provocations, criticism and abuse _constantly_, from people all over the world. He can’t possibly respond to all of it. So what he should do is just to ignore it.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/14 "2016-12-27T03:18:59Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
>
> Trump should not be responding to provocations, real and imagined, by tweeting constantly. It’s undignified. Plus as president, he’s going to get provocations, criticism and abuse _constantly_, from people all over the world. He can’t possibly respond to all of it. So what he should do is just to ignore it.
I agree with everything you wrote. I wish someone could take away Trump’s Twitter account. But what would Obama achieve by getting a rise out of Trump, even if we were to consider an off-hand tweet “getting a rise”?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/15 "2016-12-27T03:30:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> She only won a plurality of the vote.
Yes, correct.
But what he said is still not the same as saying he could have won.
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### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/16 "2016-12-27T03:35:54Z")
He probably WOULD have won if he’d been allowed to run again.
So?
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/17 "2016-12-27T03:44:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> She only won a plurality of the vote.
And Trump won an even smaller plurality, regardless of the disinformation he tries to throw out there. Your point?
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/18 "2016-12-27T03:54:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#):
>
> And Trump won an even smaller plurality, regardless of the disinformation he tries to throw out there. Your point?
It was a simple correction. “plurality” is the more accurate term, not “majority” which John Mace used in #10.
ETA: We wouldn’t say Trump won a “plurality” either, at least, if we’re talking about the popular vote. Majority = 50%+1. Plurality = largest share of votes, but less than 50%.
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/19 "2016-12-27T04:07:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> > [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
> >
> > Trump should not be responding to provocations, real and imagined, by tweeting constantly. It’s undignified. Plus as president, he’s going to get provocations, criticism and abuse _constantly_, from people all over the world. He can’t possibly respond to all of it. So what he should do is just to ignore it.
>
> I agree with everything you wrote. I wish someone could take away Trump’s Twitter account. But what would Obama achieve by getting a rise out of Trump, even if we were to consider an off-hand tweet “getting a rise”?
I don’t think anyone _should_ take away Trump’s Twitter account. Instead he should have the maturity not to use it as he has.
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/20 "2016-12-27T04:11:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> There were a whole bunch of people, prior to the election, that were confident Hillary would’ve beaten Trump too. I’m not certain Obama would have, but there’s no way to know.
>
> If he was trying to provoke Trump, I don’t know what he hopes to accomplish by doing so. He’s a lame duck and Trump is his successor.
She did get 3 million more votes, she just got 70,000 votes too few in the wrong states.
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