# I could have beaten Trump, says Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 26, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669 "2016-12-26T23:11:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/81 "2016-12-28T02:49:22Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Oh come on, they couldn’t do much worse than Obama’s crowd. As the [NY Post](http://nypost.com/2016/12/25/obamas-legacy-is-a-devastated-democratic-party/) puts it (and you may quibble at the source but try denying the facts): > > > [@](#): > > > > … a non-stimulating $831 billion “stimulus,” eight consecutive years of economic growth below 3 percent, an 88 percent increase in the national debt, the revocation of America’s triple-A bond rating and ObamaCare’s epic flop ($2.3 trillion to finance widespread insurance policy cancellations, 20 bankruptcies among 24 state co-ops, early retirements for experienced but exasperated doctors and more). Also nauseating federal nano-management of everything from dishwashers to third-grade lunches to national school shower policy > > . > > Not exactly a hard act to follow. So will you go on record and be prepared to admit Trump’s presidency is a failure if he produces similar numbers, i.e. national debt up 40% in four years, America’s Triple-A rating not restored, national growth continues under 3% annually? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/82 "2016-12-28T04:10:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > …And, no, it’s not the same thing as standing behind the nominee once the primaries are over. I’m talking people who were anti-Trump even when he won the nomination. They don’t much like Trump but the opportunity to gloat at the people they _really_ can’t stand is just too delicious to overlook. On the other hand, how else would we have humor like this: > **[Trump Aide Isn’t Sweating Inauguration Bookings: ‘This Isn’t Woodstock’](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boris-epshteyn-not-worried-trump-inauguration-bookings)** > > Donald Trump's transition team says it's not at all worried about the lack of A-list celebs signing up to perform at the President-elect's inauguration. “Not at all,” Boris Epshteyn… > [@](#): > > …Boris Epshteyn, the communications director for the inauguration, told CNN on Monday. “You know, this is not Woodstock… ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/83 "2016-12-28T04:17:31Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > [Story](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/12/26/president-obama-says-he-would-have-beaten-trump-if-i-had-run-again/) > > I think he’s right and as a supporter of the Republicans I’m relieved that he couldn’t run against Trump. But my first thought upon seeing this story was, does he really have to stick it to Hillary when she’s down? I’m sure most people (well, except Trump) know that it’s true anyway, but why rub salt in the Clintons’ wound by trumpeting the fact in a major interview? > > It almost feels as if Obama still has a major grudge against Hillary and that there’s no love lost between them. Is this a fair appraisal? I do think he’s right but it’s not a dig against Clinton. The following makes his intent obvious: Obama stressed his admiration for Clinton and said she had been the victim of unfair attacks. But, as he has in other exit interviews, Obama insisted that her defeat was not a rejection of the eight years of his presidency. To the contrary, he argued that he had put together a winning coalition that stretched across the country but that the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign had failed to follow through on it. What I think is obvious is that the man who beat both John McCain and Mitt Romney could certainly have beaten an unpopular orange buffoon, and that the purpose of his statement was to quite rightfully defend his own legacy. He is undoubtedly pissed that Hillary’s failings and missteps have created the appearance that the voters rejected his own accomplishments, whereas in fact what the voters rejected was Hillary while Obama remains as popular as ever. He’s not happy with the outcome or with Hillary but it’s not personal. I still remember Obama being asked a long time ago if he could imagine Trump ever giving a State of the Union address, and he said, “Maybe on SNL I could”. He must be furious at that stupid woman for so badly bungling the campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/84 "2016-12-28T07:22:40Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > It says that he also failed to mobilize the majority of the American people to anything, but no one was making the claim that he did so I saw no reason to refute an argument that no one is actually making. Yet here you are implying how horrible a person Hillary is and just kind of shuffling Trump under the rug as if it meant nothing to your argument. > [@](#): > > It’s not a non-sequitor, because it’s pointing out that a claim made in this thread is factually wrong. If the total number of voters means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, then don’t make false claims about Hillary motivating the majority of the American people - which is the claim I was responding to. > > I think voter turnout is quite relevant to the claim, since part of motivating people is getting them to turn up and vote, and voter turnout was extremely low overall and especially in states that she expected to win but lost. You’re building straw men again. Show me cites where low voter turnout is attributed solely to Hillary. Matter of fact, though I doubt you’ll pay any attention to the conclusions of the article because it disagrees with you, you might read this: [QUOTE=Rebecca Harrington and Skye Gould, Business Insider] For some Americans, the two names at the top of the 2016 ticket were so unpalatable that they opted not to vote for president at all, instead focusing on down-ballot races. In 14 states, more people voted in the Senate races than voted for president. The overall results show that nearly 2.4 million people nationwide cast ballots but left the presidential line blank. [/QUOTE] I also note that you seem to have statistics that no one else does, so once again I want cites. I’ve been watching and I’ve seen no percentage breakdowns by party yet. > [@](#): > > Also, as I pointed out, Hillary didn’t get a majority of actual voters, so even if we take the “American people” in the claim to be “American voters who did show up”, the claim that she motivated a majority of them is still wrong. She only got 48% of the votes of voters who did show up, which is not actually a majority (that would be over 50%) > > The argument pattern of ‘Let’s make a false claim, but then say that it’s a non-sequitor for people to point out that the claim is objectively false’ is not a very good one. Well then back up your claim with actual, you know, evidence. Published facts. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/85 "2016-12-28T07:29:59Z")
And, since I missed the edit deadline by a minute, I had more to say on the second point: > [@](#): > > It’s not a non-sequitor, because it’s pointing out that a claim made in this thread is factually wrong. If the total number of voters means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, then don’t make false claims about Hillary motivating the majority of the American people - which is the claim I was responding to. Total of POTENTIAL not ACTUAL voters is what you claimed, which has absolutely nothing to do with my point and never did. It proves nothing. Yeah, so I made a mistake in terminology. Mea maxima fucking culpa. I meant something slightly different, but you can read in whatever you want. And, I’m certain, you will. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/86 "2016-12-28T07:43:28Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > You cannot change the **fact** that Trump won. Welcome to poor winner land. But that’s not an uncommon reaction with Republicans right now. In point of fact, it’s your overwhelming attitude. But so what? When did I ever say anything about Trump not having won the election? If wishes were fishes then pigs would fly. And we have the king pig about to enter the White House, followed by all his little piglets. That’s reality. The fact that he got elected in the first place only proves how gullible the electorate is in the main. That is also reality. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/87 "2016-12-28T07:57:36Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Hillary won the race that never was. Congratulations. > > Trump won the race according to the existing rules. Congratulations. > > Every candidate running for President of the United States knows they have to win a majority of the Electoral College votes in order to be the next POTUS, even if their constituents do not, or are in denial. Presidential political campaigns are designed to win as many of the individual states EC electors as possible. > > What does it say about Trump? It says Trump won according to the rules of the contest. Hillary lost no matter how anyone tries to spin the results. > > Hillary did win the largest-number-of-faithless-electors-who-abandoned-their-candidate contest. That’s got to count for something? Why is it that people keep just assuming that I said ANYWHERE that Trump never won the election? Whatever, say it until you’re blue in the face, I never even implied it. But that’s all part of the strategy, isn’t it? Divert and propagandize. Your little ‘grow up,’ ‘get over it,’ ‘work with us because Trump won’ propaganda is not going to work, especially after 8 years of Republican obstructionism. Demonstrations are more than just a childish lashing-out, no matter how much you try to paint it otherwise. Trump is deeply unpopular and unqualified. And you can yell all you want about how he won the election, it won’t stop me from brazenly and loudly proclaiming how much of a worthless, inept fool he is. Because that’s the way that little inconvenient thing called freedom of speech works. It doesn’t mean freedom for me to mouth your beliefs, no matter how much you want it to. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/88 "2016-12-28T08:14:21Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Yay Team! > > If the Democrat Party wants to accomplish anything over the next several years, they are going to have to re-learn the art of compromise. The ability to compromise is the key to good government. Claiming that their loss is actually a win will only get them laughed at. Elected Democrats can stand outside licking the windows, or they can try to regain some influence in Congress. Their choice. This one is just too good to pass up. Democrats must relearn the art of compromise which Republicans forgot for over two decades and have now suddenly rediscovered. Are you fucking serious? Uh-uh, bub. Fugeddaboutit. By the way, a special note: certain conservatives here on this very board, but more importantly Trump, managed to push me someplace I haven’t been before, and didn’t expect to be for a while. For the first time in my 3 and a half decades of voting, I am a registered Democrat. Independent no more. And will stay that way. Republicans are a sham cover for naked powergrabbing at any price (including and especially democracy) using any means, and they must be stopped. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/89 "2016-12-28T12:20:09Z")
Looking at the math, it’s hard to disagree with Obama. But, understand that the dynamics of the Trump - Clinton race are different than the dynamics of a Trump - Obama contest. Hillary lost in large part because of she’s Hillary, but Obama himself had come to represent the establishment - the same establishment that Trump ran against and won, beating 17 opponents in the process. One major problem would have been Obamacare. The ACA’s perceived flaws would have hurt him in the Rust Belt, and since it was his signature piece of legislation, it probably would have actually affected him more than it did Hillary. At least Hillary could step back and disown it – Barack Obama couldn’t have done that. Obama also would have been weak on foreign policy, with the same perceived flaws as Hillary. He would have been exposed for his inability to prevent hacking, his failures to de-escalate the Middle Eastern conflicts, his failings in diplomacy with Russia. He won’t be remembered as a particularly bad foreign policy president but he won’t be regarded as one of the better ones either. Obama probably would have pushed more minority voters to the polls, but they also probably would have continued the downward trend in enthusiasm that minority voters have had since 2008. The fact is that America’s lived with a black president the past 8 years – the country hasn’t changed _that_ much. And some minority communities have actually become poorer and more violent. Obviously this isn’t Obama’s fault, but people need to be inspired to vote – the reality for economically depressed minority communities isn’t really that inspiring. Obama would have won the popular vote by probably an ever larger margin. But it really is up for debate as to whether he would have won the blue collar votes that went to Trump this year. A lot of those voters weren’t just rejecting Hillary Clinton; they were rejecting Barack Obama’s legacy as well. And others were simply not that inspired by it. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/90 "2016-12-28T14:15:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Yet here you are implying how horrible a person Hillary is and just kind of shuffling Trump under the rug as if it meant nothing to your argument. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, Hillary mobilized a majority of the American people, and she didn’t win. My argument is that the claim, quoted above, that Hillary Clinton mobilized a majority of the American people is a false statement, that she did not actually ‘mobilize’ a majority of the American people as a whole, of eligible voters (less than 1/3), or of the votes cast (less than 1/2). Trump really is irrelevant to my argument, because at a base level it is about what Hillary did, and at a further level about the Democratic party’s acceptance of that myth and their tendency to decide that they did better in elections than they did. Also I made no claim about Hillary Clinton being a horrible person. > [@](#): > > You’re building straw men again. Show me cites where low voter turnout is attributed solely to Hillary. Matter of fact, though I doubt you’ll pay any attention to the conclusions of the article because it disagrees with you, you might read this: Asking me to provide cites for an untrue claim that I didn’t make is stupid. You can’t just make up positions out of the blue, then demand that I support them, then claim victory when I don’t find cites for the thing you made up that I don’t even agree with. I simply didn’t claim that low voter turnout is attributed solely to Hillary. > [@](#): > > I also note that you seem to have statistics that no one else does, so once again I want cites. I’ve been watching and I’ve seen no percentage breakdowns by party yet. Asking me to provide cites for some kind of percentage breakdown that you have in your head and that I didn’t talk about is also just plain stupid. I don’t even know exactly what claim you’re arguing with, but it’s not a claim that I made so the idea that I’m obligated to support it makes no sense whatsoever. > [@](#): > > Well then back up your claim with actual, you know, evidence. Published facts. Do you really need cites for something as well-known as the number of eligible voters in 2016, or the popular vote percentages? Or are you asking for cites for arguments that you made up and I didn’t make, which again is a stupid thing to ask? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/91 "2016-12-28T14:21:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Total of POTENTIAL not ACTUAL voters is what you claimed, which has absolutely nothing to do with my point and never did. It proves nothing. Yeah, so I made a mistake in terminology. Mea maxima fucking culpa. I meant something slightly different, but you can read in whatever you want. And, I’m certain, you will. While Johnny Ace and John Mace have variants on the same first name and rhyming last names, as far as I know they are not the same person (and AFAIK sock accounts are against the rules for this board). The claim that I was arguing with initially was made by John Mace, not Johnny Ace. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/92 "2016-12-28T15:17:52Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Republicans are a sham cover for naked powergrabbing at any price (including and especially democracy) using any means, and they must be stopped. I think you mis-spelled Harry Reid’'s name here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/93 "2016-12-28T16:22:35Z")
Ooh, snap! Wilde? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/94 "2016-12-28T17:19:43Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > the Democrat Party Srsly? > [@](#): > > The ability to compromise is the key to good government. How’s that been workin’ out for ya lately? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/95 "2016-12-28T17:25:37Z")
\*If \*what Obama says is true then how does this square with racist white voters electing Trump? Personally, I believe Obama would most likely have defeated Trump. However, Trump knows this cannot be proven or dis-proven. This is one of the most blatant examples of Trump trolling. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/96 "2016-12-28T22:50:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > This one is just too good to pass up. Democrats must relearn the art of compromise which Republicans forgot for over two decades and have now suddenly rediscovered. Are you fucking serious? (post shortened) Yes. The Democrat Party now has a secure hold on 2nd place in Congress. They can stand on the sidelines and watch legislation being passed, or they can re-learn to work with the majority party. The ability to compromise is the corner stone of good government. The Democrats and Republicans have worked together. They’ve passed legislation together. They used to go on junkets together. The status quo of the last 8 years is fine with me, but if the Democrat Party wants to accomplish anything over the next several years, they are going to have to re-learn the art of compromise. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/97 "2016-12-28T23:00:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Srsly? > > How’s that been workin’ out for ya lately? :rolleyes: Well, let’s see. Trump was elected President, Hillary won’t get a chance to pick another gun-banning cretin for the Supreme Court, Hairy Reid is going to retire to whichever bridge he originally crawled out from under, and Obama is going golfing full time. Seems to be workin’ out pretty well. Thanks for askin’ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/98 "2016-12-28T23:03:02Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Yes. The Democrat Party now has a secure hold on 2nd place in Congress. They can stand on the sidelines and watch legislation being passed, or they can re-learn to work with the majority party. The ability to compromise is the corner stone of good government. > > The Democrats and Republicans have worked together. They’ve passed legislation together. They used to go on junkets together. The status quo of the last 8 years is fine with me, but if the Democrat Party wants to accomplish anything over the next several years, they are going to have to re-learn the art of compromise. Or not. Do you feel that this is what Republicans did in 2008 that led to them regaining control of Congress in 2010? Because I don’t think you can honestly say that with a straight face. They united to oppose, in lockstep, everything that Obama and the Democrats wanted to do, and they did it as loudly as possible, making their argument that Obama was uniquely awful, imperious, and dangerous. And they made their case to the public every second of every day of the entire Obama Administration. I’m not claiming to be unbiased here, I’m a Democrat myself, and I think that they were _wrong_, but what I can’t argue is that they were _effective_. Why shouldn’t the Democrats take a page from the Republican playbook now? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/99 "2016-12-28T23:35:27Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > Do you feel that this is what Republicans did in 2008 that led to them regaining control of Congress in 2010? Because I don’t think you can honestly say that with a straight face. They united to oppose, in lockstep, everything that Obama and the Democrats wanted to do, and they did it as loudly as possible, making their argument that Obama was uniquely awful, imperious, and dangerous. And they made their case to the public every second of every day of the entire Obama Administration. I’m not claiming to be unbiased here, I’m a Democrat myself, and I think that they were _wrong_, but what I can’t argue is that they were _effective_. Why shouldn’t the Democrats take a page from the Republican playbook now? It’s their choice. The Democrat and Republican legislators didn’t work well together for the last eight years. Little was accomplished. I noticed that the world didn’t come to an end. OTOH, the last eight years proved that the Democrats were incapable of forming a working coalition with the loyal opposition. As the majority party, the leadership party, many voters may have held them in contempt, in the non-legal sense. Out with old and busted, in with the new hotness. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669/100 "2016-12-28T23:45:47Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If the Democrat Party wants to accomplish anything over the next several years, they are going to have to re-learn the art of compromise. The ability to compromise is the key to good government. :rolleyes: Can I nominate this for some kind of award or something? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-could-have-beaten-trump-says-obama/775669.md?page=6)