I crossed a picket line today

I gotta say, as a strong anti-unionist, Stomp does more for my side than I can. His values and biases are crystal-clear, and quite ugly. His claim of unions having sole creation rights on all that’s right in the world, including good working conditions, relief for 9/11, etc. are also very disturbing. Which as I say is good, as anyone with half a brain knows the truth and laughs at such assertions.

Also, I gotta say, Stomp, there’s a chance I may make more than you, but I would never rub it in your face or try to make you feel bad about it. Decent people don’t laugh at those smaller than themselves, or try to make others feel bad about their lot in life.

And of course, not only do you try to make less-compensated people feel bad about themselves, you also whine about us “$20m/year” management types, so you spread hate pretty far and wide, don’t you friend?

I crossed today, too, and I make absolutely no apologies for it.

I crossed because I had a week’s worth of groceries I needed to feed myself and my family. My family’s just as important as their families, and I’ll be damned if I’ll starve so they can get 100% individual and family medical coverage when the most my employer offered was 50% and the coverage we get through my husband’s employer costs us nearly $200/month. I don’t feel the least bit sorry for these people. I’ve even been informed in the other thread on this matter that part-time employees are entitled to health benefit coverage – that’s unheard-of in any other business I’m aware of.

I crossed because I resent that these people are blackmailing their employers in an effort to extort more benefits than that which the market will bear. I like my Albertson’s and I’ll be damned if I’ll allow these selfish people to put them out of business through bullying tactics.

I crossed because I resented their presence at the entrance to the store I wanted to shop at, in an effort to scare me into not buying food to feed my family. I will NOT be bullied. Period. If they’re that unhappy with their horrifying circumstances and they absolutely must protest the “unfair” benefits they’re being paid, then by all means, don’t go into work and stay home. But don’t you DARE stand out there and try to frighten me – I won’t stand for it.

I thanked every worker I saw in that store today, for coming in to work. The store was filled with smiling, happy, friendly, courteous people willing to work and happy to provide me the service I needed.

If the people outside with the picket signs want better wages and benefits, they should go look for another job that pays better wages and benefits. I assure them they’ll never find it.

Albertson’s employees currently get 100% coverage for: [ul] [li]Medical insurance plans[/li][li]Vision care[/li][li]Prescription drug coverage[/li][li]Dental care[/li][li]Disability benefits[/li][li]Life insurance benefits[/li][li]401(k) plan[/li][li]Holidays/personal days[/li][li]Vacation[/li][li]Professional liability coverage and continuing education [/ul] A journeyman clerk now earns $17.90 an hour with fully paid family health insurance and a guaranteed pension. Management is saying they cannot afford to continue to absorb the increases in health insurance costs without passing some of those costs on to the employee. They’re asking that employees with spouses and/or children pitch in $25/week to cover their families. Employees themselves will still continue to receive 100% coverage. I fail to see what’s so “unfair” about that. Heck, even as long ago as 5 years, Mattel started telling employees they’d have to make contributions to their healthcare costs, even for individuals, the premiums have gotten so high. As I posted in the other thread: [/li][quote]
http://www.laborresearch.org/story2.php/292

(emphasis mine)

benefit costs rose 4.7 percent last year, down slightly from the 5.1 percent increase in 2001, but still well above the budgets set by most companies. In the first quarter of 2003, benefit costs jumped 2.4 percent, double the increase for the fourth quarter of 2002, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Benefit costs are expected to rise five to six percent this year, **driven largely by health insurance premiums, which rose 10.2 percent in 2002 and are forecast to rise again this year by 12 to 17 percent. **

<snip>

Benefits now account for 34.5 percent of total compensation for union workers, compared with 26.1 percent for nonunion workers, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Employer costs for health insurance for union workers average $2.70 per hour or 9 percent of total compensation, compared with $1.17 per hour or 5.6 percent of total compensation for nonunion workers.
[/quote]
I will not be held hostage by these people. End of story.

P.S. Rico, according to the above-linked article, “Strike benefits would vary with the hours spent on the picket line, with the maximum of $300 paid for 40 hours.”

Boo freaking hoo. I made $9 an hour working in special ed. Tell me again why running a cash register deserves higher pay than working with high needs children with disabilities? And maybe the $7.25 is based on cost of living right there, I don’t know. But it’s a hell of a lot higher than I’ve ever seen as starting pay for unskilled work. And that’s before you take into account that they get insanely nice benefits with it. The grocery store here you start at minimum wage. And your entire benefits package is a free drink for every 4 hours you work.

So they’re getting paid $7.50 per hour to walk the picket line (assuming a 40 hour week, of course)…

I stand by my previous statement, then.

$7.25 sounds like a pretty good starting wage for a grocery store, though I am aware of the astronomical cost of living on most of the West Coast.

And for those saying “Teenagers work in grocery stores” – well, from what I saw in the L.A. area, a LOT of people are not teenagers and ARE working to support their families. Lots of immigrants and the like. So, while I can’t feel terribly sympathetic towards the strikers this time, benefits ARE important to them.

I never, ever, EVER heard of part-time people getting benefits anywhere. Wow.

Nonetheless, I wouldn’t have crossed the line unless it were a dire emergency, but I was raised not to cross picket lines on principle. In this case, though, it sounds like they’re being awfully whiny. But hey, if they want to strike, go for it. I don’t think in this case it’ll get them very far.

Who gets paid $17.90 an hour and complains?? I earn $7.00 an hour at my current job. At my previous job I earned $5.50 an hour. Bear in mind, this is from a student’s perspective. I am not, and could not support a family on the money I make. But nearly $18.00 an hour sounds good to me.

No opinion on the union thingie. If I need milk, I’m buying milk.

Stomp? Hun?

There is a key on your keyboard, a very important, special key that you could not do without.

It’s: This.

I suggest you use it wisely. Please.

With the word of these salaries and benefits getting out, I can imagine that we’re going to get droves of Southern CA college students dropping out of school to go work at Albertsons or Ralphs.

Ah, the good old 'return key.

Yeah well, the “scabs” are getting $12/hour. I’d be smiling and happy too.

I’m having a weird night culture shock, from this thread and other conversations. I’ve never had any experience with a strike in my life, and I don’t think many people in my town have either.

20 hours a week comes out to over 40,000 yearly (pre tax and all, of course)…

You know, if 40,000 isn’t a living wage in this day and age, the problem is less a product of where you work than it is of where you live. Granted, I’m not suggesting raising a family on 40,000, but many many families are multiple-income households; it’s a fact of life today.

When I last was truly in the work force, I was making when I quit 16.50 an hour for 32 hours of work a week (about 27,000 a year). I was able to have an apartment, a car, health insurance, put money into a 401(k), give to my church, pay bills, pay for some college, and still have a very generous entertainment fund (notice I wasn’t putting anything into savings! Dang!).

Granted, I don’t have a family, but I think (as I said before) in this day and age it’s unrealistic to assume that one has the right to be able to raise a family on a single income. Those who can afford it are privileged.

STOMP –

Oh, I don’t know. I’d guess it depends on where you live. But you didn’t say “enough to raise a family on;” you said you consider $20 per hour “not a living wage.” $20 per hour x 40 hours a week x 50 weeks a year (assuming a two week break, unpaid) totals $40,000, or just shy of the average income in the U.S. as of 2001. (Cite here. So to say $20 an hour is not a living wage is IMO laughable. Not to mention, that when you talk about “raising a family,” you are quite probably not talking about one income but two, which would be $80,000, of course.

Now, I suppose that you can lose your temper and imagine I’ve never worked a day in my life; celebrate the exodus of work to Mexico; only want rich kids to go to college, whatever other irrelevant and unsupported b.s. you might like to accuse me of, but you can’t change the fact that I think the statement “$20 a hour is not a living wage” is ridiculous, and that it says volumes about what hardcore pro-union people believe.

So it obviously isn’t in anyone’s best interests for people in the U.S. to not make a “decent wage,” but to assert that $20 an hour isn’t a decent wage is an insult to the millions of workers in this country who work for $6, $7, or $8 an hour, and raise a family on that, too. Should those people make more money. Hell, yes, because they aren’t making a living wage. You, Mr. $20-an-hour, are. As, for that matter, am I. But I’ve been the waitress who makes minimum wage and prays for a good night in tips so I can buy some groceries, and I would have smacked the face of anyone who told me $20 an hour wasn’t enough to live on.

And I’m getting pretty damn sick and tired of every damn thing being about “Democrats” and “Republicans” and “conservatives” and “liberals.” Not everyone holds every opinion they have for political reasons; a lot of us don’t really give a shit about politics on a daily basis anyhow.

So if you consider this a “scathing retort,” so be it. But I maintain your statements to date say far more about you and the union mentality than they do about me.

I’m finding it odd that the people who are trying to defend the unions in this thread aren’t doing a better job of it. People are throwing how much these clerks make into your faces, and they’re throwing out stuff like "How does he have the right to complain when he’s making $18 an hour and getting full benefits?’ and you’re coming back with “$20 an hour isn’t a living wage”???

These grocery stores are all publically traded companies. Give me numbers form their annual reports that say that the companies benefit financially as compared to non-union grocery stores in the region by having the highly trained union workers well compensated and happy, and therefore the companies should keep their workforce well compensated and happy. Show me soaring profits, show me soaring stock prices. And then I’ll believe you.

-lv

Good for you Shayna and Jodi. In this day and age, the union coercion of “give us what we want or we’ll drive you into bankruptcy” is just un-American.

I like how the auto unions have almost suceeded in destroying the big 3. They used to brag about how unflexible they were. How it took 3 days and 6 workers to authorize a lightbulb change. They were really socking it to those companies!

There’s a MARKET for labor. It’s supposed to be free. What these union types want is above market wages and they resort to bullying to get it. What about all the people making less than $17 an hour who are non-union? If everyone were in a union, prices would be twice as high for everything, so union people are really just exploiting their low wage counterparts.

Some single mother making $7 an hour is supposed to “respect the union picket” of people mad b/c they’re only making $17 an hour? How disgusting.

As for “living wages”, one reason living costs are so expensive is b/c people bid up prices for land and houses, esp. out in CA. If wages were lower they’d have less money to do so. It’s one reason why jobs are leaving CA.

If the company isn’t paying a “living wage” why are people willing to work there? It’s not the companies responsibility to make sure you can live off of your wage anyway. If you don’t like it, get a better job.

I bet if there were no union and they just fired all the workers, they’d get replacement workers for much less.

It really saddens me to hear such anti-union sentiments in this thread from working-class and lower-middle-class people. Sure, Stomp’s arguments are emotional, and with good reason. He is right on as far as the historical role of unions in creating our relatively high standard of living. Even my conservative Dad, who would love to give credit for everything to capitalism, has to admit that America became the first majority-middle-class nation in the history of the world partly due to the labor movement and partly due to economic expansion.

As a teacher, I owe everything I have to unions. My union has made it possible for me to live a middle-class lifestyle and go the doctor, dentist and optician. Sometimes I get mad at the bonehead things my union officers occasionally do, but at the end of the day I am glad that I have someone in my corner, to negotiate for me and to make sure I have due process if I ever get in trouble. If it weren’t for my union, nobody at work would ever have the courage to stand up and say when they think something is wrong. I wish all working people could be in unions, or at least have the choice to pick a union if they want, and so I support all labor organizing efforts.

Millions of lives have been improved by the direct or indirect influence of the labor movement. Even non-unionized workers have benefited when union wages set an industry standard, or when business owners raise wages of their own accord in an effort to pre-empt unionization.

Support for unions by the general public is important. Most people work for a living, and so it is in their interest to support other workers. The more working-class people support unions, the more likely it is that unions will be able to support you when the time comes. Most socially-conscious legislation at the state and federal levels is supported by unions, including environmental legislation. (There are exceptions, of course. Unions in polluting industries have sometimes derailed environmental bills, and the prison guards union in California is very reactionary and has too much influence.)

Supporting the labor movement is like supporting America. You may disagree with some of its individual actions, like this strike or a faraway war, but in the end you support the institution because it is good overall. Actually, the labor movement IS America. Working people have always struggled for a better life through organization *(Read Howard Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States”!) and the labor movement is a fundamental part of American life, just as much or more than the military, small business, universities or Wall Street. Yes, it is true that most people aren’t unionized, but then most people aren’t small business owners, military personnel or university students either. The influence is larger than the numbers.

It is crucial to support unions now, because the political momentum is currently against organized labor. We may not immediately go back to the days of child labor and 18-hour days, but the threat of givebacks is there. The UPS workers and the L.A. bus drivers had to go on strike and they had to win, because the threat of contracted-out and part-time positions is real. And remember, it was CA Governor Pete Wilson who undermined the principle of overtime for the eight-hour-plus day. (This was later undone by Gray Davis, who was actually a pretty good governor on labor and environmental matters.)

Why should we unionized folk agree to any degradation in our standard of living when the average CEO makes 411x what their workers make, as opposed to 13-24x in Western Europe? (My cite is Michael Moore, who cites Business Week and the New York Times.) Unions are not insensitive to management claims of economic stress – that’s why unions bring their own budget and financial experts to negotiations and suggest cuts in waste. That’s what my union does, and yes, we have sometimes agreed to temporary givebacks because of economic conditions. But most of the time, we find waste and executive perks that can be cut in order to protect lower-wage employees.

I know a lot of people here probably don’t like Michael Moore, but I encourage everyone to read Chapter 7, “Horatio Alger Must Die,” in his new book Dude, Where’s My Country? He points out many examples of how Corporate America is profiting at the expense of the worker, and interestingly enough, he levels some scathing criticisms at the Big Union boys too. But he still supports unions, just like he supports America.

I also recommend Chapter 36 of Al Franken’s new book Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, titled “The Waitress and the Lawyer,” which is based on an actual one-act play Franken produced that shows how low-wage workers are being squeezed in W’s Texas. Also, please read Barbara Ehrenreich’s Nickeled And Dimed: On (Not) Getting By In America.

All four of the authors I have recommended in this post have written modern political classics!

Of course I can’t accuse anyone of a sin if they go to a grocery store during this strike. If the strike goes on very long I may have to go to the supermarket myself, although I’ll try to cut back on my trips. Maybe on my way in I’ll offer the picketers some words of encouragement, or maybe even some coffee and donuts. I just hope that those who cross the picket line to go shopping do so out of need and not out of ideology.

The striking supermarket workers don’t actually need *everyone * to stop going to the market. All they need is to make some impact on the overall level of business at the market, and judging by tonight’s news they are succeeding. Some markets are closing early, some managers are driving delivery trucks, and some shoppers are greeting familiar faces on the picket line in a friendly way. (According to Channel 7.) But time will tell.

People, please try to have a little empathy. Everybody does what they need to do in order to get by economically, and striking is something unionized workers sometimes have to do. And remember, at two of the chains the workers are locked out, not striking.

Strikes affect me economically as well. I don’t drive a car, and when the bus drivers struck I couldn’t go to work. But I didn’t get mad at the drivers – I got mad at the County Supervisors for not even trying to do anything to end the strike. The bus drivers were clearly in the right, and one of the County Supes was quoted in the LA Weekly saying they didn’t care about bus riders.

Shayna, I was not there, but I do not believe anyone tried to “scare,” “bully” or “frighten” you – unless they threatened you or inflicted some other form of verbal aggression on you. Are you saying that’s what happened? Most unions don’t allow that, and picket lines, in and of themselves, are not “frightening”. Everybody has the right to protest on a street corner and try to inform passers-by about their cause, including strikers. It’s called free speech. And if you choose not to listen to them, then most picketers are smart enough to give up on you.

bri1600bv – yes, there is a free market for labor, and unions are part of that free market equation. Workers have the right to organize themselves into larger groups in order to bargain more effectively in that free market. Union tactics are essentially economic actions within the free market. Saying that the existence of unions somehow undermines the existence of the free market is as ludicrous as saying that CCORPORATIONS are anti- free market. All actors in the economy, employers and employees, have the right and the incentive to associate in bigger groups to increase their economic clout. The practice is at least three hundred years old. Or do you claim that the free market only applies to the owning/employing side???

Capital is not the only side of the economic equation, there’s a labor side too. It is incredible how some people view all business actions as legitimate and normal while they view all labor actions as suspicious and somehow unnatural. Listen up, people, everything in the labor-capital relationship is between consenting adults – the government hardly imposes anything except some fundamental rules of fairness. If you claim, like bri, that union tactics are “coercion,” or if you claim, like Shayna, that unions are “holding you hostage” by limiting your economic choices – well, why don’t you say the same about businesses and corporations, which limit your choices even more???

bri, unions and strikes are as American as apple pie.

Clearly, there are some limited perspectives at work here. An anti-union colleague of mine once told me that he hoped the UPS strikers lost, because the bad sinister unions “can’t tell business what to do.” Well, the businesses tell the workers what to do, so WTF? A balanced economic equation depends on equality.

Why is it wrong for workers to use the economic “coercion” of a strike, when corporations use economic coercion daily in other ways? Like Wal-Mart driving its smaller competitors out of business. Your boss is probably the most coercive person you will ever know, including your parents.

Much of the time, the law and the government even favor the employer: for instance, unions can’t advocate “secondary boycotts,” or boycotts of businesses that do business with the employer being struck. In return, the employer is expected to respect the results of unionization elections and bargain in good faith. Half the time, the employer even wins those elections, and much of the time contract negotiations go nowhere. It is very hard work to unionize a workplace, but when such a campaign succeeds – oh, it was so worth it!!! Nuff said.

Live Better, Work Union. It’s not just a bumpersticker!

By the way, we of the United Teachers-Los Angeles haven’t struck in a while, but the last time teachers struck there was no strike pay. There won’t be any strike pay in any future job action either. Nobody even talks about it. We will gladly forgo some income in the short term for better compensation in the long term.

OMG. tclouie, I just hope to god that you never ever ever educate my children. Your ideas of cites are just off the map crazy, they’re so far from what anybody could ever consider rational or moderate. Your ideas of values created by unions are just nutty. Your union support (“I owe everything I have”) is right up there with Jim Jones. You’ve drank a bit too much kool-aid my friend.

Though I am very happy to see you don’t seem to look down on others, like your brother Stomp. Oh wait, you are looking down on me as I’m a corp exec, but then it’s not like we do anything of value and only exist to suck blood until we’re rightfully stifled, so I suppose that’s ok.

Bill H. wrote

When I wrote that last night, I really meant it, that on a pure qualifications basis, your extreme biases really should disqualify you from such an important role as educating our youth. Unlike Stomp for example, who could be a very fine steel-worker despite his radical beliefs.

This morning however, though I still feel your beliefs are as radical as say someone who refuses to teach evolution to children because it somehow offends them, I realize that “hoping to god that you never ever ever educate my children” is a bit too harsh. In fact, you’re probably a very good educator.

I do hope though that for the sake of your charges you at least attempt to teach a bit more from the middle and let them make up their own minds about what’s right and wrong.

I posted something similar to this in the St. Louis grocery strike thread and I’ll post it here too:

People in unions think that they deserve a raise or deserve to get health benefits paid for because they work hard (sometimes), and they need to be paid more to afford to raise a family. Well, what about the people that would gladly work at a grocery store for $7/hr instead of $7.50. Don’t those people deserve a job? I mean, they probably have families to support as well. Why should the grocery chain be forced to pay people money that they’re not worth? Anyone can run a grocery checkout. Anyone can stock shelves. So why are these people complaining that they’re not making enough when other people would happily take a job that paid $7/hr and have at least some of their medical costs paid for. I don’t back these unions just for the simple fact that they aren’t a skilled workforce and I don’t think they have any right to try and demand more money. Replace them all, and the grocery stores will still function and they will also be able to compete with Wal-Mart. I guess the union peeps don’t realize that they are responsible for how well their employer can compete against other places. Last year I was happy to have a job and not take a pay cut. I sure as hell didn’t complain when my health insurance went up $5/week.

Grocery workers aren’t working in dangerous conditions, they have no specialized skills, and they can be easily replaced. Instead of them bitching, I think they should be happy for what they have. It’s not about protecting the little man from the big mean corporation, it’s the fact that these people are complaining because they don’t have enough. But the simple fact is that they do have enough, and in many cases, they have more than a lot of other people. Had they been striking because they were being forced to work 60 hours a week and only get paid for 40 or if the grocery stores had decided to start chopping off their hands if they didn’t check fast enough, that would be different. But to me, these strikes are nothing more than the workers being greedy, which is ironic because that’s what they’re supposedly fighting.