# "I’d rather be ruled by a competent Turk than an incompetent Christian." - Who said this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 6, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-d-rather-be-ruled-by-a-competent-turk-than-an-incompetent-christian-who-said-this/767796 "2016-10-06T19:51:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-d-rather-be-ruled-by-a-competent-turk-than-an-incompetent-christian-who-said-this/767796/1 "2016-10-06T19:51:47Z")
“I’d rather be ruled by a competent Turk than an incompetent Christian” is attributed to Martin Luther but this declaration of pragmatism in earthly political matters cannot be found in any of his writings. Moreover, it’s not linked to Luther in any source before 1988 when it appeared in biography of Pat Robertson. Also, it seems oddly open-minded (not to mention witty) for someone like Luther who was notoriously intolerant of other religious creeds than his own. So, who really said this and when? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-d-rather-be-ruled-by-a-competent-turk-than-an-incompetent-christian-who-said-this/767796/2 "2016-10-06T20:25:12Z")
Whoever it was, I agree with him, so it would not surprise me if a lot of enlightened thinkers said words to that effect. It might have been said by someone quotable right after WWI, when Ataturk ws coming to power, although Turk was the common parlance for centuries before that to describe Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-d-rather-be-ruled-by-a-competent-turk-than-an-incompetent-christian-who-said-this/767796/3 "2016-10-06T20:41:34Z")
This [blog](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2012/08/luthers-wise-turk-quote-that-he-didnt-say/) seems to think it was (inaccurately) derived from an open letter (i.e. blog) that Luther wrote in 1520 complaining about the rule of the pope in Germany: > [@](#): > > “It is said that there is no better temporal rule anywhere than among the Turks, who have neither spiritual nor temporal law, but only their Koran; and we must confess that there is no more shameful rule than among us, with our spiritual and temporal law, so that there is no estate which lives according to the light of nature, still less according to Holy Scripture.” ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-d-rather-be-ruled-by-a-competent-turk-than-an-incompetent-christian-who-said-this/767796/4 "2016-10-06T20:43:32Z")
I agree it does not sound like a genuine Luther quote, but he was not entirely humorless: [You Say Scatological, I Say Eschatological -- The Humor of Martin Luther — Jane Voigts](http://janevoigts.com/blog/2014/10/24/luther-laughter) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2016, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-d-rather-be-ruled-by-a-competent-turk-than-an-incompetent-christian-who-said-this/767796/5 "2016-10-07T07:13:33Z")
It’s the “competent/incompetent” that suggests this is very modern - I don’t think people really used the word in that sense until relatively recently (it would previously have implied something to do with the powers granted to someone rather than their personal capabilities). But it may reflect a common idea from the days of the Ottoman Empire, which had its Western admirers as an example of relative tolerance of diversity: the opposition of “Turk” to “Christian” sounds much older, so it might be an adaptation of something said by someone like Mary Wortley Montagu or Hester Stanhope. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-d-rather-be-ruled-by-a-competent-turk-than-an-incompetent-christian-who-said-this/767796/6 "2016-10-07T14:40:47Z")
Something similar, “Better the turban than the mitre”, was said by Lucas Notaras, a high ranking official and friend of the last Byzantine Emperor. The pope had offered military aid to Byzantium on condition that they convert to Catholicism, and Notaras was suggesting that he would prefer Turkish rule. (unfortunately, the Turkish conquest wasn’t so good for him personally, as he was executed within a week after the city fell). ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-d-rather-be-ruled-by-a-competent-turk-than-an-incompetent-christian-who-said-this/767796/7 "2016-10-07T16:01:01Z")
Reminds me of a quote from Moby Dick when Ishmael is forced to share a room and bed with Queequeg: “Better sleep with a sober cannibal than a drunken Christian.” ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-d-rather-be-ruled-by-a-competent-turk-than-an-incompetent-christian-who-said-this/767796/8 "2016-10-07T16:28:58Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Something similar, “Better the turban than the mitre”, was said by Lucas Notaras, a high ranking official and friend of the last Byzantine Emperor. The pope had offered military aid to Byzantium on condition that they convert to Catholicism, and Notaras was suggesting that he would prefer Turkish rule. (unfortunately, the Turkish conquest wasn’t so good for him personally, as he was executed within a week after the city fell). Interestingly with about 7084 different reasons given for his execution, he had originally been given clemency, about the only thing all sources agree on. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-d-rather-be-ruled-by-a-competent-turk-than-an-incompetent-christian-who-said-this/767796/9 "2016-10-08T07:27:23Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > It’s the “competent/incompetent” that suggests this is very modern - I don’t think people really used the word in that sense until relatively recently. . . Luther wrote in German and Latin, so any words by him in English are translations. A modern translation would have modern usage. That doesn’t mean the quote comes from Luther, but I think this is a weak argument against it. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-d-rather-be-ruled-by-a-competent-turk-than-an-incompetent-christian-who-said-this/767796/10 "2016-10-09T16:20:57Z")
The modern world is full of false “famous quotations.” Most are the result of the person who either coined, or “misremembered” them, seeking to borrow undeserved and often meaningless authority to their arguments about something. This is why I have myself, concluded that no matter how much I may personally revere or respect some famous or infamous personage, I will still analyze what they may have said on it’s own merits. Often, the key to recognizing what the sneaky goal of the fake quote is, and who came up with it, is to inspect the context it is being used in when you come to question it. The most common formula this trick argument takes, is to cite a fake statement by a representative of someone who should be OPPOSED to the person making up the quote. So since this is attributed to a religious figure, and the statement itself actually belittles religious convictions, relative to earthly concerns, the situation it was applied to, might be something along the lines of trying to explain why people who claim to have strong religious convictions, would nevertheless support a morally corrupt political leader, perhaps even on the grounds that the corruption itself, makes them more practical.