# I definitely believe the 20's start today, 1/1/2020 **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 1, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751 "2020-01-01T22:07:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/41 "2020-01-02T16:18:29Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Nope. It’s no more “technically correct” than prescriptivists who claim words in the English language “technically” mean something other than the way people actually use them. > > Ordinality has nothing to do with it. You have ordinality (1st century, 2nd century, etc.) whatever date you deem to be the beginning & end of each century, and whatever the apparent precise length of each century that implies. > > The repeated assertion that the 21st century started on Jan 1st 2001 is based on a flawed assumption that in counting centuries we’re concerned about the precise number of years that have elapsed since some vague reference date in the distance past. We’re not, and (per Little Nemo’s post above about calendar reform etc) if that were the case then we’d need to account for a lot of other factors too, and it would not be Jan 1st 2001 either. > > When we think about moving into a new century, we’re not celebrating the fact that a precise number of years have passed since some poorly defined reference date, we’re celebrating the fact that a big number on our calendar system changing, giving us a sense of the broad passage of time. Everyone knows that, which is why this “technically” nonsense was always dismissed with a roll of the eyes. > > You’re not “techically” right, you’re just wrong. I disagree. We can celebrate (and do) a “new century” when we hit 2000. That’s fine with me. It’s just not technically the 21st century, if we define a century as 100 years with the first counting year being one. And I have no problem calling 2000 the beginning of “a new century.” It most definitely is, and I most definitely said that’s fine in my original post. It’s just not technically the start of the 21st Century if we define a century as 100 years, with the starting year as 1. I don’t see at all how your post dismisses this technical argument. This century started in 2000 (or 2001, but most typically 2000 as used in conversation.) The 21st Century started in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/42 "2020-01-02T18:15:53Z")
I’m a pretty smart guy, but I’ve always found the practice of referring to “the _n_th century” slightly confusing and counter-intuitive. If you mention the fourteenth century, for example, I always have to take a few seconds to think through what that means: “Let’s see, I know that’s not the 1400’s, so it’s either the 1300’s or the 1500’s—which way does it go? Um… the 20th century means the 1900’s, so I subtract, so the 14th century is the 1300’s! I think? Why don’t they just _say_ 'the thirteen hundreds” in the first place?!?" But if I’m being pedantic, the two different formulations aren’t equivalent, because the nineteen hundreds ended on December 31, 1999, but the twentieth century ended on December 31, 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/43 "2020-01-02T18:34:16Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > The 20s start today. The 3rd decade of the 21st century, however, starts next year. Yes ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/44 "2020-01-02T18:42:10Z")
It’s a matter of nomenclature. “The 20s”, by definition are years ending in 2x. The two thousands started on 1/1/2000, but the twenty-first century started on 1/1/2001 ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/45 "2020-01-02T18:46:32Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It’s really simple. > > The _20th century_ ran from 1901-2000. I consider that it ran from the start of 1900 to the end of 1999. That’s the only thing that makes sense in conversation with ordinary people. There is a very good reason why people were only ever bothered about the calendar ticking over from 1999 to 2000, it was a _new_ millenium that everyone thought was significant. If you think differently then you’ll find yourself having pedantic arguments with people about things in the year 2000 not being part of the 21st century and that’s fine, knock yourself out but it is a losing (and pointless) game. The periods of 100 years that we designate as “centuries” are arbitrary. To me it makes perfect sense to apply the century name to the relevant numbers. Anything else is unnecessarily pedantic and unhelpful. If you want precision then simply name the date or date range you are referring to but if you choose to use decade, century and millennium definitions that aren’t widely accepted then prepare to explain yourself ad-nauseum and encounter much eye-rolling for very little benefit. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/46 "2020-01-02T18:55:46Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > And what about that kooky 5th Dentist??? Hey, I’m not really that kooky ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/47 "2020-01-02T18:57:56Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m a pretty smart guy, but I’ve always found the practice of referring to “the _n_th century” slightly confusing and counter-intuitive. Yes, I don’t like it, either, and I also have the same brief mental hiccup to convert from ordinal centuries to cardinals. I much prefer saying “the 2000s” or “the 1300s” or whatnot, but sometimes that can be confused for a decade name if it’s in the recent past. (I suspect “the 1300s” will always be interpreted as the century starting with the year 1300, but “the 1900s” it could be a toss-up as to whether the first decade of 1900 is meant or the entire century from 1900-1999.) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/48 "2020-01-02T19:15:09Z")
I don’t recall who it was but I recently saw a talking head on TV refer to the period 2000 - 2009 as “the two thousands” as if the rest of the century isn’t the two thousands. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/49 "2020-01-02T19:43:33Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > While technically correct that the 21st century began in 2001, it just annoying pedantic by this point. The century changes when the big number does - who cares about a counting decision made nearly 1500 years ago. Nailed it. Except, of course, that you meant either “it’s just annoyingly pedantic” or “it’s just annoying pedantry”. I am of course amazed and delighted to be the first to point this out. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/50 "2020-01-02T20:04:20Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > Good thing we don’t have a Y2.02k bug to grapple with. I hate anomalies. I recall hearing that the first Y2K issues were identified in the late 1960’s in relation to 30 year mortgages. If a 30-year mortgage started in 1970, then it would end in 2000, and therefore they had to accommodate an 8-digt date. However, some of the incoming dates were still 6-digit. The 2-digit years would have been handled by the 50-year rule. If it’s less than 20, it’s the 2000’s. If it’s 20 or greater, it’s the 1900’s. Probably none of those late sixties programs are still running with a 30-year-old unrevised incoming date patch. Probably. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/51 "2020-01-02T20:24:45Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Probably none of those late sixties programs are still running with a 30-year-old unrevised incoming date patch. Probably. Missed edit window. Probably none of those late sixties programs are still running with a **50** -year-old unrevised incoming date patch. Probably. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/52 "2020-01-02T20:30:01Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Probably none of those late sixties programs are still running with a 30-year-old unrevised incoming date patch. Probably. Missed edit window. Probably none of those late sixties programs are still running with a **50** -year-old unrevised incoming date patch. Probably. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/53 "2020-01-02T20:47:02Z")
“A” century/decade can begin and end anytime. If you say “the” century/decade you have a specific start and end in mind but you can’t assume everyone else knows what you mean without additional info. The 1900s and the 20th century both are valid references but they overlap only 99 years. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/54 "2020-01-02T21:11:41Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > Nailed it. Except, of course, that you meant either “it’s just annoyingly pedantic” or “it’s just annoying pedantry”. Initially I went for the former, edited intending the latter and effed it up. I blame the board outages (somehow). ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/55 "2020-01-02T22:20:35Z")
“The 20’s” started on 1/1/2020. There can’t really be any debate about that, as the name supplies the definition: “years whose last two digits are in the twenties (i.e. 20-29)”. “The current century”, on the other hand, is ambiguous. [ul][li]Do you mean “the 21st century”? If so, it began on 1/1/2001.[/li]Or do you mean “the 2000’s”? They began 1/1/2000, because the year 2000 can’t really belong to “the 1900s”, now can it?[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/56 "2020-01-03T04:56:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > “But, Nemo,” you cry, “that won’t work! We didn’t have a year zero!” And there wasn’t a Year One (or Two, Three, etc) either. Those years were all extrapolated centuries into the past. Year Zero can be extrapolated as well. I would continue to extrapolate into negative years as well. Negative numbers aren’t that difficult a concept. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/57 "2020-01-03T07:39:22Z")
If we named decades the way we name centuries, the 203rd decade would start on January 1, 2021. We don’t do that, though. When we refer to the 20s, we mean the decade 2020 through 2029; that is, the years whose names end with “twenty-something.” There’s no contradiction or inconsistency in this. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/58 "2020-01-03T12:43:46Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > While technically correct that the 21st century began in 2001, it just annoying pedantic by this point. The century changes when the big number does - who cares about a counting decision made nearly 1500 years ago. This!! ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/59 "2020-01-03T14:34:24Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > And there wasn’t a Year One (or Two, Three, etc) either. Those years were all extrapolated centuries into the past. Year Zero can be extrapolated as well. > > I would continue to extrapolate into negative years as well. Negative numbers aren’t that difficult a concept. When did this “year zero” occur? It can’t take place between 1BCE and 1CE as those were back to back. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/60 "2020-01-03T15:22:50Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I consider that [the 20th century] ran from the start of 1900 to the end of 1999. I realize this is IMHO, and not GD or P&E, but: > [@GD/P&E Rules](#): > > “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” - Daniel Patrick Moynihan. Posters in Great Debates and Politics and Elections should take this statement to heart. Be aware of your own opinions and how they shape your thinking. Do not confuse your opinions with facts. You can _consider_ anything you want, but it doesn’t make it so. > [@](#): > > That’s the only thing that makes sense in conversation with ordinary people. Terms like “the 1900s” and “the 2000s” are handy for that, not to mention, you don’t have to make the mental adjustment that **Thudlow Boink** mentioned earlier, that no, the **14** th century means the **13** 00s, not the **14** 00s. > [@](#): > > If you think differently then you’ll find yourself having pedantic arguments with people about things in the year 2000 not being part of the 21st century and that’s fine, knock yourself out but it is a losing (and pointless) game. We’re 19 years into this new millennium. I’ve thought this way the whole time. Other than right this moment, I don’t remember getting into any such arguments. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751.md?page=4)