# I definitely believe the 20's start today, 1/1/2020 **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 1, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751 "2020-01-01T22:07:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/61 "2020-01-03T18:03:47Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > When did this “year zero” occur? It can’t take place between 1BCE and 1CE as those were back to back. This is year 2020 ZE (zeroed epoch). Two thousand years ago, it was 20 ZE. Nineteen years before that was 1 ZE. The year before that was 0 ZE. The year before that was -1 ZE. It’s easy to convert to CE or BCE, if we’re so inclined. I’ll leave it as an exercise for the reader. Granted, the ZE system is not widely used, especially because I just invented it. But it’s no more arbitrary than the CE and BCE systems. Quick: how many years is it from 10 BCE to 10 CE? ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/62 "2020-01-04T00:24:18Z")
I never see anyone else use my argument. It’s not the part of the twenties because each year starts with that two in the particular position… It’s the twenties because it’s a linguistic grouping, not a mathematical grouping. Don’t believe me? Is a twelve year old a teenager? No, because “teen” isn’t a part of the word that is their age. It’s all based on words, not on numbers. Which makes me wonder - is there a word like “teenager” in other languages, and does the start age change depending on the language? ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/63 "2020-01-05T02:28:38Z")
Yes. The Roaring 20s started already! ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/64 "2020-01-05T02:53:35Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > I recall hearing that the first Y2K issues were identified in the late 1960’s in relation to 30 year mortgages. If a 30-year mortgage started in 1970, then it would end in 2000, and therefore they had to accommodate an 8-digt date. However, some of the incoming dates were still 6-digit. The 2-digit years would have been handled by the 50-year rule. If it’s less than 20, it’s the 2000’s. If it’s 20 or greater, it’s the 1900’s. Probably none of those late sixties programs are still running with a 30-year-old unrevised incoming date patch. Probably. Um…were there any computer programs as such in the 60s? While early computers have existed for several decades, the first PC didn’t hit the market until the year I was born, long after the 60s were over. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/65 "2020-01-05T03:17:53Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Um…were there any computer programs as such in the 60s? While early computers have existed for several decades, the first PC didn’t hit the market until the year I was born, long after the 60s were over. Computer programs existed long before the PC. I was pounding out keypunch cards for Fortran programs before the first PC. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/66 "2020-01-05T11:57:37Z")
It’s cool to watch the odometer when, briefly, a whole bunch of the little drums turn together. What else matters? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/67 "2020-01-05T12:44:48Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > The 20s start today. The 3rd decade of the 21st century, however, starts next year. Yes. The "20th century " is not quite the same as “the nineteen hundreds” and the 3rd decade is not the same as the 20s. It’s not that hard. ---
**Author:** ![rosecoloredboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@rosecoloredboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rosecoloredboy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/68 "2020-01-06T04:21:47Z")
I think the 2020s started when the Fyre Festival (didn’t) happen. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/69 "2020-01-06T17:13:09Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Um…were there any computer programs as such in the 60s? While early computers have existed for several decades, the first PC didn’t hit the market until the year I was born, long after the 60s were over. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/70 "2020-01-06T17:30:04Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Computer programs existed long before the PC. I was pounding out keypunch cards for Fortran programs before the first PC. Adding more information in support… Desk Set - a movie from 1957 is about the romance between the head of a research/reference center (Katherine Hepburn) and the programmer/inventor of a computer that will aid in information retrieval (Spencer Tracy). This article [https://history.bnpparibas/dossier/a-brief-history-of-it-in-the-banking-industry/](https://history.bnpparibas/dossier/a-brief-history-of-it-in-the-banking-industry/) covers the use of computers in the banking industry, which started long before PCs. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/71 "2020-01-06T17:36:22Z")
Meant to add that the first commercial computer dating service was in 1963 [Timeline of online dating services - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_online_dating_services) - which means that people who were matched by a computer could have grandchildren old enough to post on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/72 "2020-01-07T00:55:43Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > It’s the 20’s and THANK GOD. This “aughts” and “tens” business has been really awkward and I didn’t like it. It is a bit weird though to be “reusing” a decade that seems fairly recent and famous though. I love pretty much everything about the OG 20’s except the depression. Ok…I was gonna let QtM off the hook b/c he is Doctor. But I can’t stand it anymore. 20s. Not 20’s. If you need an authority, cite me. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/73 "2020-01-07T01:07:36Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Ok…I was gonna let QtM off the hook b/c he is Doctor. > But I can’t stand it anymore. > > 20s. Not 20’s. > If you need an authority, cite me. The shame, it burns. I’d worked so hard to stamp out apostrophe misuse. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/74 "2020-01-07T01:21:49Z")
As to the general contest here over who can be the most pedantic in defining when various millennia/centuries/decades begin or end: [See Little Nemo’s Post #25.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22057837&postcount=25) Each of these terms refer to approximate periods. A millennium is not a period of exactly 1,000 years. It cannot be, because it isn’t even possible to define 1,000 years exactly. The earth does not revolve around the sun, returning to the same point once a year; the sun itself is moving (even if the only thing you fix in space is the center of our galaxy). A year is a different number of cesium transitions every year. Even if you decided what a modern “year” is using an optical clock, said year times 1,000 would not be the length of time referenced by “the first millennium” ending 31 December, 1001. And this is without even calculating in the variabilities of the calendars we have used. Amateur pedants try to score points correcting those who they think mistakenly celebrated the end of a prior millennium/century/decade prematurely, on the theory there was no year 0, and which millenium/century/decade was “technically” this or that. Amateur pedants. The consequence of this is that they miss the party and end up just being nerds. Millennium: A period of about a thousand years. First millennium: By overwhelmingly popular consensus\*, 1 Jan 1 through 31 Dec 999. Figure out the rest. And let the third decade of the third millennium begin in peace. \*The best arbiter of English usage, with the exception of me. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/75 "2020-01-07T01:26:26Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Each of these terms refer to approximate periods. A millennium is not a period of exactly 1,000 years. It cannot be, because it isn’t even possible to define 1,000 years exactly. Nah, a millennium is exactly one thousand **calendar** years. The fact that it’s not possible to come up with a completely consistent and invariant **astronomical** definition of a calendar year is a different issue. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751/76 "2020-01-07T02:31:58Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > The shame, it burns. I’d worked so hard to stamp out apostrophe misuse. :smack: In modern style guides, yes, avoiding the apostrophe there is usual, but in older American styles it was fine to put the apostrophe to indicate the plural of a number. It still is if necessary for clarity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-definitely-believe-the-20s-start-today-1-1-2020/845751.md?page=3)