# “I didn’t intend to scare you.” “But you did”. “Not my problem”. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 21, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462 "2004-06-21T16:42:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/21 "2004-06-21T20:45:41Z")
What was he singing? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/22 "2004-06-21T21:26:44Z")
What Larry Mudd said. Martin is playing the “I’m not touching you” game with his singing, and he knows damn well he’s doing this. I’m a big, scary guy. Can I sit across from him and clean my Glock, or shapen my foot long bowie knife, or lick my lips and grunt “Mmm…Mmm…Umm” while I stare at him hungrily. Hey, I’m just being me! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/23 "2004-06-21T21:39:43Z")
> [@](#): > > When a guy does something relatively innocent, like singing, and that mortifies an old lady, is that guy then responsible for her fear? What if he had just “looked wrong”? At what behaviour do you draw the line? I’m sure most guys have at times, felt guilty for frightening a woman when they had no intention of doing so. Its probably pretty safe to say that “littlle old ladies” may frighten more easily than others. Taking glee in causing that fear is just wrong. If someone gets fearfull because of what you are wearing or your skin color I would say its their problem. If its because of your actions and you are in public I would say its probably your problem. there is such a thing as good manners. If this was the Pit I would say how much I hate people who do things just to say “Hey look at me!” Remember you are not aloud to yell “movie” in a crowded firehouse. Or something. > [@](#): > > Why is it when people say “be yourself” it always means “be an annoyiong ass and do whatever you want to no matter how obnoxious it may be?” People should stop getting in touch with their Inner Child and bloody well start getting in touch with their Inner Adult for a change. I love you eve, SDMB smartass Queen. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/24 "2004-06-21T21:46:41Z")
I would say its mainly the old ladies problem. She wasn’t annoyed, she was afraid. People who are afraid of non-threatening situations have themselves to blame. If I thought the CIA was trying to kill me and i tried to sue the CIA nobody would take me seriously because I invented a threat where none existed. Public decorum is nice, but singing to yourself barely registers on the weird-o-meter. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/25 "2004-06-21T21:51:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > …If someone gets fearfull because of what you are wearing \ I would say its their problem. ] So you’re saying a punk-rocker with a mohawk and studded leather clothing is not deliberately scaring, but a guy singing a song by the Cure is ? I’m just trying to draw the line here. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/26 "2004-06-21T21:59:06Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > I would say its mainly the old ladies problem. She wasn’t annoyed, she was afraid. People who are afraid of non-threatening situations have themselves to blame. If I thought the CIA was trying to kill me and i tried to sue the CIA nobody would take me seriously because I invented a threat where none existed. > > Public decorum is nice, but singing to yourself barely registers on the weird-o-meter. I disagree. If you are in an enclosed space, in failry close proximity to another person (ie a train car), and you decide to start singing show tunes at normal singing volumes, it shows you really don’t give a rat’s ass about annoying or intimidating other people. Solitary little old ladies don’t really have the luxury or parsing out whether you are a mental case or horse’s ass. The bottom line is that you are obviously a perosn they should probably get away from. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/27 "2004-06-21T22:56:01Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > I would say its mainly the old ladies problem. She wasn’t annoyed, she was afraid. How do you know? “Vas you dere, Charlie?” ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/28 "2004-06-21T23:03:46Z")
Based on my talk with Martin, I think he was right, the old lady was afraid, not annoyed. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/29 "2004-06-21T23:14:24Z")
> [@LMM](#): > > Just how tolerant is Martin of others “being themselves” under all circumstances? Say, for example, he was in a nearly empty train car and the only other occupant, feeling the need to be true to himself, decided to stand up and loudly preach about the impending battle of Armageddon and the fiery lakes of hell that were just waiting for the likes of Martin? Bet he wouldn’t be all that tolerant. I bet he wouldn’t be nearly as tolerant of that sort of thing as he seems to expect others to be of him. Well, interesting point. I think Martin feels entitled to his own weirdness. precisely because _he_ would not only tolerate, but even welcome a fellow weirdo singing or dancing or talking nonsense on the train. > [@](#): > > I’m a big, scary guy. Can I sit across from him and clean my Glock, or shapen my foot long bowie knife, or lick my lips and grunt “Mmm…Mmm…Umm” while I stare at him hungrily. > > Hey, I’m just being me! **Astro** ’s example would, IMO be a better illustration of a “taste of his own medicine” for Martin. I could ask Martin how he would feel about **Astro** doing the bowie-knife act, but there is really no need, because I can already tell you what he’d say: “But…that’s not the same at all! I was just _singing_!” ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/30 "2004-06-23T22:44:25Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Why is it when people say “be yourself” it always means “be an annoyiong ass and do whatever you want to no matter how obnoxious it may be?” People should stop getting in touch with their Inner Child and bloody well start getting in touch with their Inner Adult for a change. Preach it, Eve! Besides, heck, she was just being her easily-frightened self! And he’s judging her for it! Should she pretend not to be scared just to please his free-spirited self? To me, the logic of “being yourself” doesn’t hold up to real examination. Anyway, to a certain degree, I’ve had the experience of being the scary one. I’m not big and scary, but I’m just barely big enough that I don’t have to worry about walking alone at night. And I have multiple facial piercings, and at times I have vividly unnatural-looking hair. It’s self-expression. But if people stare at me in public (little kids tend to do it a lot, and adults do it too on occasion) or start conversations about it, well, I realize I brought it on myself. You can’t change everyone in the world. So, if being yourself has consequences, you have to put up with them or be yourself a little less. And whether it’s scaring someone, or invoking hostility from them, or any other response, you’re not gonna convince everyone to have a thicker skin. In the end, you have to make decisions. You can look scary in public, or behave oddly, but when people respond by being scared, even if their fears are irrational, you have to recognize that it’s the inevitable result of your action. And scaring old ladies is mean. If she’s scared of black people, it’s her own problem, because you can’t stop being black when you’re around racist old ladies with delicate sensibilities. And if you wear a mohawk, you can’t exactly turn it into a normal hairstyle whenever a more ‘refined’ personage walks by. But you can control how you act in front of others, and if your actions are scaring them, you _do_ have some responsibility to make a reasonable effort to stop. To do otherwise is just plain being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/31 "2004-06-23T23:16:38Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Public decorum is nice, but singing to yourself barely registers on the weird-o-meter. Anyone who walks through certain sections of certain major cities on a regular basis can be regularly confronted with people who sing to themselves, talk to themselves, argue with themselves, etc. A lot of those people are pretty damn scary, and it takes no leap of imagination to see a little old lady being scared when she’s riding public transportation and the only other passenger starts singing. And if he was truly “about 20 seats away” he probably was singing loudger than “to himself.” Did it ever occur to Martin to say “I hope I didn’t scare you. I just felt like singing.” ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/32 "2004-06-24T00:17:45Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > And if you wear a mohawk, you can’t exactly turn it into a normal hairstyle whenever a more ‘refined’ personage walks by. That does give us the opportunity to glare through our lorgnette and go, “well, _really!_” ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/33 "2004-06-26T21:36:10Z")
Well, the answers so far seem really divided. \*\*lieu, LMM, Munch, astro \*\* and \*\*Excalibre \*\* hold Martin responsible for the old lady’s fear, just like I did. **Antigen, Tikki, zephyrine** , and \*\*Kunilou \*\* say that Martin’s singing is likely to cause people to think “I’m not afraid, but just to be on the safe side, I’'ll move”. \*\*Larry Mudd, Khadaji, twickster, Eve \*\* and \*\*Loach \*\* think the behaviour was very rude, but just annoying, not frightening. \*\*Jeff Olsen, Parental Advisory, TellMeI’mNotCrazy \*\* and **Wesly Clark** feel that in Martin’s case, the old lady was overreacting. I asked where do you draw the line? The general conclusion seems to be: “I can dress any way I want, and anybody who gets afraid of my looks has themself to blame for their fear. But my behaviour should be impeccable.” Is that about right? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/34 "2004-06-26T21:49:13Z")
Well, the answers so far seem really divided. \*\*lieu, LMM, Munch, astro \*\* and \*\*Excalibre \*\* hold Martin responsible for the old lady’s fear, just like I did. **Antigen, Tikki, zephyrine** , and \*\*Kunilou \*\* say that Martin’s singing is likely to cause people to think “I’m not afraid, but just to be on the safe side, I’'ll move”. \*\*Larry Mudd, Khadaji, twickster, Eve \*\* and \*\*Loach \*\* think the behaviour was very rude, but just annoying, not frightening. \*\*Jeff Olsen, Parental Advisory, TellMeI’mNotCrazy \*\* and **Wesly Clark** feel that in Martin’s case, the old lady was overreacting. I asked where do you draw the line? The general conclusion seems to be: “I can dress any way I want, and anybody who gets afraid of my looks has themself to blame for their fear. But my behaviour should be impeccable.” Is that about right? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/35 "2004-06-26T22:43:23Z")
Is it possible the woman didn’t notice Martin until he started singing, thereby announcing himself? It’s not uncommon for a young, healthy man to be parsed as a potential threat under situations like this. I’ve done it myself - Late one night, I was out for a walk. I and a woman in her late-twenties or early-thirties both entered a (unlit) road at about the same time. Me about half a minute behind her. When she notices me, she picks up her pace, occasionally glancing back at me. I realise what’s going on, slow down, and turn down a side-street at the earliest opportunity. I don’t think I’m responsible for scaring her, or that Martin’s really responsible for scaring the lady in question, but it wasn’t unreasonable for them to be scared (they had no real way of knowing I or Martin were completely harmless), and it may just have been Martin’s presence, rather than his actions that prompted it. ---
**Author:** ![Marvel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Marvel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvel)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/36 "2004-06-27T02:29:28Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > As Martin starts singing, the old lady looks at him with scared eyes, clutches her purse in her frail hands and makes a dash for the door to the other coach. > > [snip] > > Still, it made me think. Where do you draw the line? If old ladies get scared by a mohawk-hairdo, or leather pants, or even by an attempt at polite conversation, then who’s to blame? Here’s my theory…if the other person on the train was, say, a 20-something, burly football player, he would’ve thought Martin was an oddball and blown him off. But honestly, we women and the elderly can be seen as easy marks by people who are criminal or crazy and I bet the woman on the train knew this as well. To her, this oddball could potentially be a threat to her. To be honest, weird behavior from others is scarrier to me when I’m walking alone at night than when I’m walking with a group in the daytime. The former pricks up my ears and my “situational awarenss,” the latter can be laughed off because of the comparative safety of the situation. Does Martin honestly NOT realize how a young (compared to her), tall male in any circumstance can be seen as threatening to a little old lady? If he doesn’t, maybe he ought to consider putting himself in other people’s shoes for a moment. My two cents. YMMV. Patty ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/37 "2004-06-27T02:56:23Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > I asked where do you draw the line? The general conclusion seems to be: “I can dress any way I want, and anybody who gets afraid of my looks has themself to blame for their fear. But my behaviour should be impeccable.” > > Is that about right? I’d tend to agree. If he was sitting there and singing to himself and not intentionally bothering anyone, then he should not be held responsible if some strange woman got scared and ran off. If, on the other hand, she had asked him to stop singing and he had told her to “Bugger off” _then_ he would be an ass. In my opinion the old lady freaked out of her own accord. ---
**Author:** ![partlycloudy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/partlycloudy/32/3114_2.png) [@partlycloudy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partlycloudy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/38 "2004-06-27T03:12:56Z")
Yes, putting himself in other peoples’ shoes. Or at least realizing that each of us has a _different pair_ of shoes. It seems he’s being a little “closed-minded” (ooh, he would hate me right now, wouldn’t he?) in assuming that he knows what scares everyone else, what prompts another person to do something like change seats or look at him all scared-like. An old woman and a 30-something weird guy… There’s something going through her head. Who’s he to know her life story? Maybe the song had a particular significance in her life? (I’m stretching here) His free-spirited-ness isn’t getting any exercise through an attitude like his. Hm… that was a weird sentence. And while I don’t think he should be _held responsible_ for her feelings, I do think that he could afford to be a little more decent and respectful about her reaction. “…uptight, narrow-minded and afraid-to-live” – these are adjectives he used to describe an old lady that he’d never even met or spoken to?? Yeah… an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/39 "2004-06-27T14:00:32Z")
I am still voting for “old lady wasn’t necessarily terrified,” but old lady took a look at the loudly braying hippie, thought, “asshole,” and decided to remove herself hence. As I would have done, too. ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462/40 "2004-06-27T17:32:59Z")
I’m a little late to the party, but I have to support the singer. Where do you draw the line? Is it OK to whistle? What about hum? What if you hum and then throw in some words? I’d say he was being a jerk if he deliberately did something that a reasonable person could construe as being scary, but just singing to himself does not meet that level. Feeling smug about it afterwards would be jerky, but the later clarification makes it sound that he was not smug about it but perhaps trying to justify his actions in the light of the bad feeling he got from scaring her. Singing growling monkey death metals songs while staring at the old lady - reasonably expect to be scary. Singing Echo and the Bunnymen while looking out the window- acceptable public behavior. Where inner child vs inner adult comes in is after he noticed that his behavior was annoying/scaring someone else. At the point he realized he was being a problem, then stopping would be appropriate. Didn’t sound like he had that choice this time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didn-t-intend-to-scare-you-but-you-did-not-my-problem/251462.md?page=3)