# I didn't know I had it so good (cost of living) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 15, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800 "2005-01-15T01:15:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/1 "2005-01-15T01:15:08Z")
I live in center of a big city (Houston). We’ve got traffic, big business, I must hear sirens 20-30 times a day, we have what I’d imagine is one of the highest sales tax rates in the U.S. (8.25%) and my recent forays in to real estate shopping have left me with sticker shock (don’t misunderstand me; I love this city). So when, in another thread, **nivlac** posted a link to the [CNNMoney Cost of Living Calculator](http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costofliving/costofliving.html?step=form), I _had_ to check it out. Yikes! Was I surprised! While I expected the first alternate location I checked out, Manhattan, to have a higher cost of living, I was quite surprised that I would need to make almost 2.5 times (238%) what I do now to be on an even level. Of all the places I checked out: Atlanta, GA New Orleans, LA Chicago, IL Santa Fe, NM Las Cruces, NM Austin, TX San Francisco, CA LA, CA Seattle, WA Bellingham, WA All had higher costs of living, with some being over twice as high. The closest was Las Cruces at only ~4.5% higher. I’m really pretty shocked to learn that someone making $54K a year in Houston is on an even keel with someone making $100K in Chicago or $128.5K in Manhattan. I remember the protagonist in Tom Wolfe’s _Bonfire of the Vanities_ guessing that he could maintain his one million dollar a year Manhattan lifestyle for about $100K a year in Lexington, Kentucky. _Bzzzzt!_ Wrong, buddy, that same level of living (not that you could duplicate the lifestyle) will cost ~$437K in Lexington. Which, without having run that particular scenario, means even Lexington is more costly than Houston. All of the above, of course, according to CNN. I realize that there are simplifications involved in this comparison. But is this comparison even close to real? And, how does your locale make out? ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/2 "2005-01-15T01:18:53Z")
Having just posted, it now seems to me that a big levelling factor would be what percent of your income you can divert into investments. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Big\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Big\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Big_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/3 "2005-01-15T12:28:32Z")
Well, i tried to find out but my city isn’t listed-it’s only the 2nd bigest city in the state and the capital. Then again, unless I’m blind the biggest, Milwaukee isn’t even listed. Strange. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/4 "2005-01-15T13:07:54Z")
My exact location isn’t listed there so I used a nearby one with roughly comparable real estate values (Framingham-Natick MA). I could get by in Houston at the same level with roughly 35% less income. Manhattan would cost me 54% more than I make now. It is strange that a lot of prominent metropolitan areas aren’t listed…I wonder how they chose which cities they did? ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/5 "2005-01-15T13:16:43Z")
Boston MA If my husband & I moved to Houston we could apparently accept a 34% pay cut and keep our current standard of living. Though since housing costs are 56% lower in Houston, I’m betting that it would feel like we were getting a higher standard of living when we didn’t watch $2000 a month disappear for a pretty crappy apartment, followed by another $400 for utilities. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/6 "2005-01-15T13:42:19Z")
Hey, Houston is cheaper than Baton Rouge, LA… Heck, even New Orleans has lower costs of living than Baton Rouge. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/7 "2005-01-15T13:48:36Z")
From where I am now, to where I plan to move in April: > [@](#): > > Grocery items are 29.389% lower > Housing is 75.066% lower > Utilities are 28.413% lower > Transportation is 13.326% lower > Health care is 56.469% lower > Misc goods/services are 28.316% lower Damn, I can’t wait. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/8 "2005-01-15T14:34:56Z")
I would do it, but Detroit isn’t listed. Only one of the bigger cities in the US. On the other hand, the town we are moving to, which has a population of about 100,000, is listed. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/9 "2005-01-15T14:41:38Z")
> [@Ringo](#): > > Having just posted, it now seems to me that a big levelling factor would be what percent of your income you can divert into investments. I have read this several times and I still am not sure I follow what you are getting at here, but then I haven’t finished my morning coffee. Could you expound? I’ll work on the java in the meantime. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/10 "2005-01-15T14:46:41Z")
According to this one on [Salary.com](http://swz.salary.com/CostOfLivingWizard/layouthtmls/coll_start.html), the place I live in (Rockford, IL), has a slightly lower cost of living than Houston. (This calculator has Detroit, too). What’s nice, though, is when you can live in one place and work in another. I live in Rockford, but work in the Chicago area…so I have it much better out here than a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/11 "2005-01-15T14:52:12Z")
Thnaks, **Angel of the Lord**. Unfortunately, it doesn’t have the place I am moving to, though. Oh, well. I know the cost of living will be less and the weather, etc. better, so I am happy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/12 "2005-01-15T15:11:48Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > I have read this several times and I still am not sure I follow what you are getting at here, but then I haven’t finished my morning coffee. Could you expound? Because investments mature independant of location. Say you were making $200,000 and living a $200,000 lifestyle, theoretically, moving to a place with 50% lower CoL and earning $100,000 would mean the same lifestyle. OTOH, if you were making $200,000 and living a $100,000 lifestyle and investing $100,000, then making $100,000 and spending $50,000 means you only have 1/2 as much to invest. When you retire, you could move to an area with a lower cost of living and live much more comfortably. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/13 "2005-01-15T15:33:33Z")
To maintain the same purchasing power, a salary of $ 12,000 in Fayetteville AR needs to be $26,987.57 in New York (Manhattan) NY In going from Fayetteville AR to New York (Manhattan) NY Grocery items are 55.335% higher Housing is 353.014% higher Utilities are 28.152% higher Transportation is 33.33% higher Health care is 92.307% higher Misc goods/services are 37.383% higher Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/14 "2005-01-15T15:44:41Z")
If I were to return to my hometown of San Francisco, I’d need to make $10k more a year to maintain my (far from lavish) lifestyle. Housing alone is 69% more expensive there. Hmmm…it’s 16 degrees here today. Which is a little unpleasant. But at least I can afford the rent on my toasty warm apartment, so I think I’m probably better off here. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/15 "2005-01-15T16:25:38Z")
I’m in the Detroit 'burbs so I used Grand Rapids as the closest location, then Detroit on the [salary.com](http://salary.com) one. Compared to Houston, both sites say I’d have a few more thousand at my disposal, not a lot but kinda surprising. Who’d have expected Houston to be cheaper than _Detroit_? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/16 "2005-01-15T17:25:16Z")
My exact location isn’t listed, I had to use San Francisco. It’s accurate enough, if slightly higher than where I am (40 minutes or so north.) I checked every major city, and the smaller ones in PA and NJ I’ve lived in, and a few I’d consider moving to on the East coast. Only Manhattan had a higher cost of living. I’d need to make 10K more a year than I do now to live there. Or so says the site. My husband and I speak often of moving out of the area when we retire. One thing is fairly certain, once we leave, I doubt we’d ever be able to return. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/17 "2005-01-15T18:23:48Z")
I’d take that calculator applet with a big fat grain of salt. It seems a bit sloppy. The first locale that was closest to me lumped “Bethesda-Frederick-Gaithersburg” Maryland into one category. Unless Frederick and Gaithersburg haver changed completely in the last 15 years or so, housing prices in Bethesda are going to be a hell of a lot more on average than in either Gaithersburg or Frederick. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/18 "2005-01-15T22:33:53Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I’d take that calculator applet with a big fat grain of salt. It seems a bit sloppy. Yeah, something’s really wacky with it. I compared my hometown, Gainesville, FL with where I live now, Austin, TX and it says the expenses are comparable and housing is 15% more expensive in Gainesville. Which is completely wrong. Housing in Austin is much more expensive than Gainesville. It also says housing in San Marcos, TX is more expensive than Austin. I wonder when they surveyed the real estate prices to make that calculator. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/19 "2005-01-16T02:19:47Z")
I tried Manhattan against Los Angeles, and found that I’d need about 30% more income to maintain my style of life. Not too surprising, but I thought it would be even more. But then I tried Queens, and found that i’d need about 10% _less_. Is living in the boroughs really that much less expensive than living in Manhattan? It doesn’t seem possible, although my stepdaughter and her boyfriend did rent a brownstone duplex apartment in Brooklyn for $1500/month. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800/20 "2005-01-16T02:45:55Z")
Just so I can giggle, exactly what was the price range of these houses that you thought were outrageous? That calculator said real estate prices there are 62% lower than they are here, and as a new homeowner, I’m dying to know. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-know-i-had-it-so-good-cost-of-living/284800.md?page=2)