# I Didn't Realize How Much an Abuser Khan Was **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492 "2016-09-10T01:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/1 "2016-09-10T01:58:53Z")
I’m watching _Space Seed_ on BBC as part of the 50th anniversary celebration and I’m shocked at how much Khan abuses Lt. McGivers, and how much she’s willing to accept it. Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/2 "2016-09-10T02:03:40Z")
Yeah, I just watched that tonight - not on the beeb - and he’s a domineering dick. It’s part of his routine, though. Manipulate and dominate to get his way and advance his ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/3 "2016-09-10T02:05:35Z")
That and other aspects clearly prove that Montalban’s version of Khan was infinitely more interesting than Cumberbatch’s. Montalban’s Khan was passionate and cruel. Cumberbatch’s Khan was a Terminator with Asperger’s. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/4 "2016-09-10T02:09:16Z")
I always wondered how McGivers got to be a Starfleet officer, being such a pushover. She should have been executed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/5 "2016-09-10T02:11:54Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > I always wondered how McGivers got to be a Starfleet officer, being such a pushover. She should have been executed. Well, in all fairness, she _did_ end up dying horribly, so there’s that, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/6 "2016-09-10T02:19:27Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, in all fairness, she _did_ end up dying horribly, so there’s that, at least. She married an asshole “Dom”. Honestly, even in fluffy candy-land SciFi, what the fuck did she expect…? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/7 "2016-09-10T02:21:06Z")
In retrospect, Khan did have a point…Starfleet just dropped them off with minimal supplies and never bothered to check on them. If Kirk were going to circumvent the legal process, skipping a trial and a court martial to impose his own sentence of exiling the accused on a harsh planet, doesn’t he own the responsibility of making sure they could survive and thrive? Of course, ban them from ever leaving the planet, but he did just drop them off and sail on his merry way. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/8 "2016-09-10T02:44:02Z")
The planet wasn’t originally harsh. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/9 "2016-09-10T02:47:05Z")
In _Space Seed_ Khan told McGivers it would be a struggle to even survive, to find food. You could argue it was wilderness, not the desolate wasteland it became with the explosion of Seti Alpha Six, but it was no Risa. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/10 "2016-09-10T02:49:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That and other aspects clearly prove that Montalban’s version of Khan was infinitely more interesting than Cumberbatch’s. Montalban’s Khan was passionate and cruel. Cumberbatch’s Khan was a Terminator with Asperger’s. My head canon for that: Cumberbatch wasn’t playing Khan. Starrleet thought they were unfreezing Khan, but due to a beureucratic snafu, [they unfroze his second in common instead](http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Joachim.jpg), who went along with the ruse to protect his boss. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/11 "2016-09-10T02:56:14Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > She married an asshole “Dom”. > > Honestly, even in fluffy candy-land SciFi, what the fuck did she expect…? She wasn’t familiar with Milton, either. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/12 "2016-09-10T03:11:15Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > In _Space Seed_ Khan told McGivers it would be a struggle to even survive, to find food. You could argue it was wilderness, not the desolate wasteland it became with the explosion of Seti Alpha Six, but it was no Risa. When the Reliant came back to that system on its survey mission, how did they not notice one of the planets was missing? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/13 "2016-09-10T03:17:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > My head canon for that: Cumberbatch wasn’t playing Khan. Starrleet thought they were unfreezing Khan, but due to a beureucratic snafu, [they unfroze his second in common instead](http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Joachim.jpg), who went along with the ruse to protect his boss. Interesting theory, but with one flaw: Cumberbatch’s name was in the credits. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/14 "2016-09-10T04:16:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That and other aspects clearly prove that Montalban’s version of Khan was infinitely more interesting than Cumberbatch’s. Montalban’s Khan was passionate and cruel. Cumberbatch’s Khan was a Terminator with Asperger’s. A reviewer for _The Wrath of Kahn_ for People magazine wrote that Montalban was “hilariously miscast.” No cite, but I remember reading the review. How in the name of the Great Bird is it miscasting to hire the original actor from the episode that was the source material for the movie? ETA - found it. [http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20082619,00.html](http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20082619,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/15 "2016-09-10T04:26:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Interesting theory, but with one flaw: Cumberbatch’s name was in the credits. I assume you mean Khan’s name was in the credits? Doesn’t mean anything. James Earl Jones was never credited as Anakin Skywalker, even though that’s who he really was. > [@cochrane](#): > > A reviewer for _The Wrath of Kahn_ for People magazine wrote that Montalban was “hilariously miscast.” No cite, but I remember reading the review. How in the name of the Great Bird is it miscasting to hire the original actor from the episode that was the source material for the movie? > > ETA - found it. > > [http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20082619,00.html](http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20082619,00.html) Although odds are he didn’t really know anything about the series, and didn’t realize it was a returning character, it’s possible he didn’t think Montalban was well cast in the original episode. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/16 "2016-09-10T04:33:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Although odds are he didn’t really know anything about the series, and didn’t realize it was a returning character, it’s possible he didn’t think Montalban was well cast in the original episode. I prefer to believe it was the former. He probably never saw _Space Seed_. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/17 "2016-09-10T05:51:49Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I’m watching _Space Seed_ on BBC as part of the 50th anniversary celebration and I’m shocked at how much Khan abuses Lt. McGivers, and how much she’s willing to accept it. > > Yikes. Wait, didn’t he respect her boundaries?Lt. Marla McGivers: I don’t know if you’re going to like living in our time. Khan Noonien Singh: Then I’ll have to re-mold it to my liking. Lt. Marla McGivers: [Khan moves in to embrace Marla] Please don’t. Khan Noonien Singh: [pushes her away] Go. Or stay, but do it because it is what you _wish_ to do! [awkward pause] Khan Noonien Singh: Well? Lt. Marla McGivers: I’ll stay a little longer. Khan Noonien Singh: How many minutes do you graciously offer? Lt. Marla McGivers: I only meant… Khan Noonien Singh: This grows tiresome. You must now _ask_ to stay. Lt. Marla McGivers: [timidly] I’d like to stay… please. Yeah, he’s a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/18 "2016-09-10T06:02:12Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > I always wondered how McGivers got to be a Starfleet officer, being such a pushover. She should have been executed. IIRC, she was a historian, so toughness was probably not in the job description. As for the OP, Khan was a guy who had taken over a good chunk of the world, and so was probably not Mr. Kissy Kissy. Khan probably abused lots of people who also took it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/19 "2016-09-10T07:21:51Z")
I always assumed he had some sort of genetic ability to be trusted–that it was part of being a superman. Maybe he had pheremones, maybe he just was an excellent manipulator and zeroed in on exactly who was vulnerable and how they were vulnerable, maybe both. In short, he had a very high charisma score. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/20 "2016-09-10T11:14:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I assume you mean Khan’s name was in the credits? No, it was a joke about Judson Scott (the actor who played Joachim in _Wrath of Khan_), whose name was absent from the film’s credits for some reason (backfired negotiation for a _higher_ listing in the credits, or so the legend goes). Cumberbatch _was_ credited, hence he could not be Joachim. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492.md?page=2)