# I Didn't Realize How Much an Abuser Khan Was **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492 "2016-09-10T01:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/181 "2016-09-20T14:44:13Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I don’t need the clip; I’ve seen the episode many times. I was referring to the Blish adaptation, which was apparently based on an earlier version of the script. Okay. But the digitized version looks cool as hell, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/182 "2016-09-20T14:58:21Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I get the feeling that in 2016 there would not be in the script the same denouement. Y’all think Marla would be allowed to choose to willingly remain with her abuser by a current writer? 50 shades of Star Trek ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/183 "2016-09-20T15:03:51Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I’m more bothered (right from the first viewing) by the laziness of the Reliant crew. They have one job - find a lifeless world to test Genesis. Not “close to lifeless”, not “something that can be transplanted”. Dead dead dead! Like they have something else to do? No wonder David hates Starfleet. Buncha idiots! > > And the episode proved it. Not only can’t the Reliant even tell the planet is not lifeless from orbital scanners, they can’t even tell what planet it is! What good are the sensors? If the sensors can’t even spot…how many? 15?..human lifeforms on an otherwise dead planet, how can they trust them anywhere else? (Kirk, in The Man Trap: Our sensors can spot a match down there!). > > The Reliant crews’ incompetence\* cost the lives of everyone on Regula, plus young Peter Preston, and Spock\*\*. > > \*You think I am too hard on them? I think Kirk should have been court-martialed and relieved of command for beaming those two redshirts into deep space in And The Children Shall Lead. They didn’t even check to see if there was a planet to send them to! If I was their family, I’d sue! “Under mind control” my ass! > > \*\*He should have stayed dead. it was a worthy death! How hard could it be to find a lifeless planet? I can find several right in our own solar system let alone the moons. I realize by that point most of the livable planets in our solar system have been colonized but seriously space is big, finding planets with life should be the real challenge. Archer had the hardest time finding planets with life on them so much so that he almost peed himself with excitement when he found one with plants. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/184 "2016-09-20T15:10:24Z")
Yeah, the ShatnerKirk-era universe presumes abundant life everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/185 "2016-09-20T16:13:05Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Yeah, the ShatnerKirk-era universe presumes abundant life everywhere. or that we’re better at locating “particle(s) of pre-animate matter” which are, what, dirt? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/186 "2016-09-20T16:48:33Z")
> [@simster](#): > > or that we’re better at locating “particle(s) of pre-animate matter” > > which are, what, dirt? Ink and paint. oh, wait, that’s pre-animated matter. It’s only questionable when it is “caught in a matrix”. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The Reliant crews’ incompetence\* cost the lives of everyone on Regula, plus **young Peter Preston** …! I have to quote myself. I’ve thought more, and I blame Kirk for Preston’s death. He should have had the shields up. Saavik even told him! High stupidity at best, gross negligence at worst. I however, can only blame myself for the apostrophe error. " Crews’ " indeed! ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/187 "2016-09-20T17:53:09Z")
I agree the failing to raise the shields is a serious error. Kirk has been in enough situations where all is not as it seems. Heck, they probably have that regulation just because of the Five Year Exploration program. The final frontier has some weird stuff going on. If you don’t have comms with a ship you just go ahead and raise the shields. It does make me wonder why Kirk doesn’t. I’ve always thought that there must be inside joke among Starfleet captains that raising your shields around a Starfleet ship means you’re timid and/or paranoid. They probably have a nickname for it like the Captain Dunsel thing. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/188 "2016-09-20T18:10:58Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I agree the failing to raise the shields is a serious error. Kirk has been in enough situations where all is not as it seems. Heck, they probably have that regulation just because of the Five Year Exploration program. The final frontier has some weird stuff going on. If you don’t have comms with a ship you just go ahead and raise the shields. > > It does make me wonder why Kirk doesn’t. I’ve always thought that there must be inside joke among Starfleet captains that raising your shields around a Starfleet ship means you’re timid and/or paranoid. They probably have a nickname for it like the Captain Dunsel thing. Your interpretation makes sense. Better to be blown up than give the impression of timidity. That’s the Starfleet mindset. If they had only communicated that to the audience. The way it is in the film makes Kirk look stupid. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/189 "2016-09-20T18:30:13Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > How hard could it be to find a lifeless planet? I can find several right in our own solar system let alone the moons. I realize by that point most of the livable planets in our solar system have been colonized but seriously space is big, finding planets with life should be the real challenge. Archer had the hardest time finding planets with life on them so much so that he almost peed himself with excitement when he found one with plants. I thought that was Porthos. 🙂 I remember one episode in which Archer brought Porthos with him on a first contact mission and caused an interplanetary incident when he let Porthos “go where no dog has gone before.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/190 "2016-09-20T19:19:50Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > It does make me wonder why Kirk doesn’t. A plot device, or are we fan wanking? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/191 "2016-09-20T19:33:41Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > A plot device, or are we fan wanking? Definitely fan wanking. The most obvious answer is because the needs of the plot outweigh the needs of the making sense. I dunno I got nothin’. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/192 "2016-09-20T19:49:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Okay. > But the digitized version looks cool as hell, doesn’t it? Yes. Yes, it does! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/193 "2016-09-20T19:53:36Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > How hard could it be to find a lifeless planet? I can find several right in our own solar system let alone the moons. I realize by that point most of the livable planets in our solar system have been colonized but seriously space is big, finding planets with life should be the real challenge. Archer had the hardest time finding planets with life on them so much so that he almost peed himself with excitement when he found one with plants. And of course in the end they didn’t even need a planet at all, just a nebula which Genesis was able to coalesce into a planet somehow. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/194 "2016-09-20T19:54:59Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I get the feeling that in 2016 there would not be in the script the same denouement. Y’all think Marla would be allowed to choose to willingly remain with her abuser by a current writer? It might not be PC, but just from watching/reading the news I can see there are still plenty of women around who allow themselves to be abused. As you suggest, it’s their choice. I doubt human nature is going to change much over the next 200–300 years. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/195 "2016-09-20T20:18:32Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I get the feeling that in 2016 there would not be in the script the same denouement. Y’all think Marla would be allowed to choose to willingly remain with her abuser by a current writer? I’ve been thinking about your question. I suspect that, were this to be written in 2016, what with “grittier” television, that McGivers would be the one seducing Khan. He wouldn’t have to abuse her as in the original. It would probably be her idea to take over the ship, because “chicks dig bad boys”. She’s finally found the manly man she’s been waiting for. I don’t propose Khan as some softie, and McGivers as the power behind the throne. No, Khan likes her idea and runs with it. He just doesn’t have to manipulate her into taking part. Then at the end, as she’s beaming down, you can see her giving Kirk the bird as she dematerializes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/196 "2016-09-20T20:25:30Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Definitely fan wanking. Oh. Well, nm. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/197 "2016-09-20T20:41:58Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > And of course in the end they didn’t even need a planet at all, just a nebula which Genesis was able to coalesce into a planet somehow. I could buy that lifelessness was not the only criterion, that there were numerous fussy requirements regarding planetary mass and temperature and whatnot, which is why Ceti Alpha VI (or at least what _Reliant_ assumed was CA6) seemed promising, but for an anomalous lifesign blip. The planet seemed to meet the unmentioned 99 out of 100 requirements and as for the last…well, maybe it’s something we can transplant. That said, I never understood the “protomatter” MacGuffin in the next film. If the Genesis planet is wildly unstable, just say it was because the planet coalesced after the device was detonated in a nebula, which was so far outside the intended use that of _course_ it wasn’t going to last, or it’d be a quite-astonishing miracle if it had. Of course if we _really_ wanted to tidy the premise up a bit, don’t have the battle take place in a nebula at all, but in the cloudy atmosphere of a Neptune-sized gas giant. The device detonates, the planet loses much its atmosphere in the crazy reactions that follow and its core gets converted (temporarily) to something vaguely Earthlike. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/198 "2016-09-20T20:55:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That said, I never understood the “protomatter” MacGuffin in the next film. My take is “protomatter” was shorthand for “let’s all forget Genesis exists, because it could solve a lot of future problems, and completely alter the Federation, so we’ll ignore it and hope you do, too”. And I did - I’ve almost completely forgotten ST:III. I hope to fully forget it in the future. 🙂 As for nebula v. planet, I guess that the planet test was a precise test. One lifeless planet becomes earth-like in a measurable way. Exploding it in a nebula means it is harder to compare before and after. It still “works”, you just can’t determine how well. It seems that Genesis detonating in the nebula also created a star as well as a planet, or at least that’s how it seemed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/199 "2016-09-20T21:19:44Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > My take is “protomatter” was shorthand for “let’s all forget Genesis exists, because it could solve a lot of future problems, and completely alter the Federation, so we’ll ignore it and hope you do, too”. And I did - I’ve almost completely forgotten ST:III. I hope to fully forget it in the future. 🙂 Gosh, a massive advance in technology being instantly forgotten in the _Star Trek_ universe? Say it ain’t so! A more plausible explanation why the Genesis Project wasn’t pursued (if anyone needs one) could be that the core group of scientists are all dead, except for Carol Marcus, and that all the research data was lost when the _Reliant_ went kablooie. > [@](#): > > As for nebula v. planet, I guess that the planet test was a precise test. One lifeless planet becomes earth-like in a measurable way. Exploding it in a nebula means it is harder to compare before and after. It still “works”, you just can’t determine how well. > > It seems that Genesis detonating in the nebula also created a star as well as a planet, or at least that’s how it seemed. You can sort-of see the star (or at least a bright background light) in some of the battle scenes, in [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD9ARfF9x0o) at 4:28 - 4:40. It’s distinct from the occasional flashes of “lightning”, whatever those are supposed to be. Looking at the entire sequence, I can see the contrast between it and the hyperkinetic craziness of the battles in the more recent films. I prefer the drama over the raw overstimulation. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/200 "2016-09-20T21:32:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I could buy that lifelessness was not the only criterion, that there were numerous fussy requirements regarding planetary mass and temperature and whatnot, which is why Ceti Alpha VI (or at least what _Reliant_ assumed was CA6) seemed promising, but for an anomalous lifesign blip. The planet seemed to meet the unmentioned 99 out of 100 requirements and as for the last…well, maybe it’s something we can transplant. > > That said, I never understood the “protomatter” MacGuffin in the next film. If the Genesis planet is wildly unstable, just say it was because the planet coalesced after the device was detonated in a nebula, which was so far outside the intended use that of _course_ it wasn’t going to last, or it’d be a quite-astonishing miracle if it had. > > Of course if we _really_ wanted to tidy the premise up a bit, don’t have the battle take place in a nebula at all, but in the cloudy atmosphere of a Neptune-sized gas giant. The device detonates, the planet loses much its atmosphere in the crazy reactions that follow and its core gets converted (temporarily) to something vaguely Earthlike. IIRC , in the novel, ‘protomatter’ meant that they ‘chaeted’ and that it was known to be unstable - it was a call back to the Kobiyashi Maru in that Kirk - and Kirk’s son - both cheated when needed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492.md?page=11)