# I Didn't Realize How Much an Abuser Khan Was **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492 "2016-09-10T01:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/21 "2016-09-10T13:50:14Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > She wasn’t familiar with Milton, either. It was Scotty who confessed he wasn’t up on Milton. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/22 "2016-09-10T13:53:17Z")
The “open your heart” scene was basically a rape scene. They couldn’t show it explicitly, but so far as I’m concerned, it’s supposed to represent that Khan subdued her through rape. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/23 "2016-09-10T13:56:31Z")
I suppose also if you have an historian who studies the past they sometimes overlook flaws in people. You saw that a few years ago when the skeleton of Richard III. There was some woman (Philippa Gregory?) who spearheaded the excavation and when she saw a reconstruction based on his skull said in front of cameras “That isn’t the face of a man who murders his children”. Hello!!! I understand the Richard III society does valuable research on the era and it is possible someone other than Crookback killed the princes in the tower. But he is prime suspect number one. There are plenty of mob guys such as Al Capone or Joh Giotti who have a large group of fans. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/24 "2016-09-10T15:41:44Z")
The scene that is quoted above is pure abusive/manipulative behavior but I suspect the writers in the 60s just thought Khan was just a jerk. “Please sit and entertain me,” is quite the opening line though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/25 "2016-09-10T16:39:36Z")
ISTM that, regardless of how well you think Montalban embodied the character, he _was_ miscast in this one particular: he was supposed to be an Indian (from India) and AFAICT made little or no attempt to change his usual Mexican accent. If anyone wants to claim that maybe dIstinctive regional accents have disappeared by the 23rd century, well a) he had some kind of accent, and 2) Chekov? Scotty? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/26 "2016-09-10T16:46:19Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Yeah, he’s a dick. And she’s a doormat. I’d expect Starfleet officers to have a bit more backbone, even egghead historians. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/27 "2016-09-10T16:54:32Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > If anyone wants to claim that maybe dIstinctive regional accents have disappeared by the 23rd century, well a) he had some kind of accent, and 2) Chekov? Scotty? iii ) Khan is from the 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/28 "2016-09-10T17:16:59Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > IIRC, she was a historian, so toughness was probably not in the job description. > As for the OP, Khan was a guy who had taken over a good chunk of the world, and so was probably not Mr. Kissy Kissy. Khan probably abused lots of people who also took it. !!!New!! Koming this Khristmas! The _Star Trek_[sup]TM[/sup] “Kissy Kissy Khan” aktion figure! Feel the wrath!! Or not!!! 😃 > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > And she’s a doormat. I’d expect Starfleet officers to have a bit more backbone, even egghead historians. I made an (unwarranted, probably) assumption, to wit: officer training would require a battery of psychological testing; including _Do Not Mutiny the Captain and Risk the Death of the Entire Crew_. But then, we _are_ talking TV. > [@BigT](#): > > I always assumed he had some sort of genetic ability to be trusted–that it was part of being a superman. Maybe he had pheremones, maybe he just was an excellent manipulator and zeroed in on exactly who was vulnerable and how they were vulnerable, maybe both. > > In short, he had a very high charisma score. You’d have to roll 39 or 40 on two 20-sided dice to defeat his mojo. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/29 "2016-09-10T17:28:14Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > ISTM that, regardless of how well you think Montalban embodied the character, he _was_ miscast in this one particular: he was supposed to be an Indian (from India) and AFAICT made little or no attempt to change his usual Mexican accent. > > If anyone wants to claim that maybe dIstinctive regional accents have disappeared by the 23rd century, well a) he had some kind of accent, and 2) Chekov? Scotty? He was genetically modified to be Mexican. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/30 "2016-09-10T17:47:40Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > iii ) Khan is from the 1990s. D’oh! But it makes my point even stronger. > [@Loach](#): > > He was genetically modified to be Mexican. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/31 "2016-09-10T18:10:08Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > I made an (unwarranted, probably) assumption, to wit: officer training would require a battery of psychological testing; including _Do Not Mutiny the Captain and Risk the Death of the Entire Crew_. But then, we _are_ talking TV. What officer training? My theory is that scientists for the most part are direct commission officers in Star Fleet. Look no further than the Pollux IV incident. Their “training” (as opposed to “Regular” Star Fleet officers) is probably a two week seminar to teach them which hand is used for salutes and the difference between a deck and a bulkhead. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/32 "2016-09-10T19:31:09Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > ISTM that, regardless of how well you think Montalban embodied the character, he _was_ miscast in this one particular: he was supposed to be an Indian (from India) and AFAICT made little or no attempt to change his usual Mexican accent. > > If anyone wants to claim that maybe dIstinctive regional accents have disappeared by the 23rd century, well a) he had some kind of accent, and 2) Chekov? Scotty? ``` Montalban was the first choice for this role and Roddenberry did not want ethnic casting in his vision of the 23rd Century. But, yeah, it is a bit strange when you consider the role is of a late 20th century character. Although even today you can find people whose names suggest they are from a different place from where they actually are. For example the racer Dario Franchitti. When he started I figured he was from Italy. Nope, born and raised in Scotland, brogue and everything. ``` > **[Space Seed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Seed)** > > "Space Seed" is the 22nd episode of the first season of the American science fiction television series Star Trek. It was first broadcast by NBC on February 16, 1967. "Space Seed" was written by Gene L. Coon and Carey Wilber and directed by Marc Daniels. > In this episode, the Enterprise crew encounter a sleeper ship holding genetically engineered superpeople from Earth's past. Their leader, Khan Noonien Singh (Ricardo Montalbán), attempts to take control of Enterprise. The episode also guest st... ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/33 "2016-09-10T19:40:49Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > iii ) Khan is from the 1990s. Well, that explains his fedora. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/34 "2016-09-10T20:18:23Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Montalban was the first choice for this role and Roddenberry did not want ethnic casting in his vision of the 23rd Century. But, yeah, it is a bit strange when you consider the role is of a late 20th century character. Although even today you can find people whose names suggest they are from a different place from where they actually are. For example the racer Dario Franchitti. When he started I figured he was from Italy. Nope, born and raised in Scotland, brogue and everything. > > [Space Seed - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Seed) When they’re discussing the Eugenics Wars, Khan is said to have ruled 1/4 of the Earth from Asia to the Middle East, so there’s more than just his name that suggests he’s Asian. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/35 "2016-09-10T20:46:58Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > When they’re discussing the Eugenics Wars, Khan is said to have ruled 1/4 of the Earth from Asia to the Middle East, so there’s more than just his name that suggests he’s Asian. … And the attitude toward women in this general culture is … what? :dubious: Knowing where he’s from, you’re surprised he’s domineering and manipulative toward McGivers?!? :eek: It was made pretty obvious from the beginning that she was brimming with frustrated female hormones, too. :o What, you’d expect her to pull out the pepper spray when he comes on to her??? That’s rather, uhm, “naive,” I’d say. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/36 "2016-09-10T21:02:01Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Montalban was the first choice for this role and Roddenberry did not want ethnic casting in his vision of the 23rd Century. Considering that back in the day, white American actors were often cast in ethnic roles and made-up appropriately, it’s not all that surprising that Ricardo Montalban, a Mexican by birth, would be cast as a South Asian in 1966. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/37 "2016-09-10T21:03:55Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > When the Reliant came back to that system on its survey mission, how did they not notice one of the planets was missing? I wondered about that myself… :dubious: 😕 :smack: ---
**Author:** ![ssgenius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ssgenius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssgenius)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/38 "2016-09-10T21:06:57Z")
She had studied him intensively and was infatuated with him. It became like meeting a legend that she had only dreamed about. It is like meeting a celebrity that you always admired. They can do no wrong!!! There is a secondary issue here as well. Some women (not all) want a male who will tell them in no uncertain ways what to do and is to the point. Without getting into to much detail, some women (not all) have these so called “rape” fantasies where they want to surrender control to someone powerful. That way (in their subconscious) they are not responsible for their actions. That is what I think was trying to be shown here. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/39 "2016-09-10T21:12:53Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > If Kirk were going to circumvent the legal process, skipping a trial and a court martial to impose his own sentence of exiling the accused on a harsh planet, doesn’t he own the responsibility of making sure they could survive and thrive? Considering that the alternative would have been confinement on a penal colony for the Eugenics and a court-martial and imprisonment for McGivers, I’d say they got off pretty lightly. Not only that, but they seemed quite happy to have a world all to themselves that they could reshape in their own image. (Hopefully, there were no sentient beings on the planet already.) It was decided from the beginning to emphasize that the \*Enterprise \*operated in a far-flung sector of the Galaxy, and that the captain, like those in the navies of the 18th and 19th centuries, would have broad discretionary powers, being denied the opportunity to check in with his superiors every time a crisis arose. Had that been the case, Kirk would have been nothing but another cog in the machine, and the series would have been nowhere near as interesting. In this context, his decision to maroon them was both logical and appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/40 "2016-09-10T21:14:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The “open your heart” scene was basically a rape scene. **[VOICE OF HOMER SIMPSON]:** He took her silence for consent. :o [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492.md?page=3)