# I Didn't Realize How Much an Abuser Khan Was **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492 "2016-09-10T01:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/161 "2016-09-14T02:47:16Z")
“TOS did not stupidly bring families aboard” (Paraphrased, sorry Ter) Whoa whoa whoa duuuuuuude. We are one, big happy family out here. We haven’t been at war in forever. The Romulans are gone. The Klingons are our allies. The Cardassian “war” was really a border skirmish. (We like to let them think it was a war.) Our economy is run on some sort of…errr…favor-trading?? Betterment of oneself?? Look dude. We need to offer incentives, or Starfleet is going to mothball itself or at best be run by psycho admirals. We can’t compete with holodecks and transporter technology. Shit, i doubt we could staff a New Orleans restaurant unless we can offer some incentives. Letting families on board our big-ass love boat Galaxy class ships is the way to go. I’m telling you. What could go wrong? I’m signing up for the Yamato myself!! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/162 "2016-09-14T03:32:55Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > It was Scotty who confessed he wasn’t up on Milton. Whether Shatner or Pine I refuse to believe Kirk was up on Milton (especially considering there are 3 more centuries of English language literature plus the lit and culture of a million new worlds to dilute whatever liberal arts Ed he has). I’ve wondered if it was one of the lines Shatner got reassigned to him. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/163 "2016-09-14T04:47:04Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Whether Shatner or Pine I refuse to believe Kirk was up on Milton. Don’t forget what Gary Mitchell told Kirk: “Hey, man, I remember you back at the Academy; a stack of books with legs!” ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/164 "2016-09-14T05:28:24Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Whether Shatner or Pine I refuse to believe Kirk was up on Milton (especially considering there are 3 more centuries of English language literature plus the lit and culture of a million new worlds to dilute whatever liberal arts Ed he has). I’ve wondered if it was one of the lines Shatner got reassigned to him. Of course he was. Unlike a certain other Captain, Kirk didn’t feel the need to go around reminding everyone how smart he was, or how great Shakespeare was. Kirk just said “I understand” when Khan asked him. Picard would have made sure everyone else in the room knew that Picard got the reference and exactly what the reference was. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/165 "2016-09-14T07:23:13Z")
I can easily picture Shatner-Kirk having some knowledge of classical literature. But if you gave a book to Pine-Kirk, he’d probably try to have sex with it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/166 "2016-09-14T17:21:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I can easily picture Shatner-Kirk having some knowledge of classical literature. > > But if you gave a book to Pine-Kirk, he’d probably try to have sex with it. Yep – TOS Shatner-Kirk was a Man Of The World, er, Galaxy. Canonically the youngest ever to make starship Captain but that still meant finishing Academy first and then climbing through the ranks for a decade and a half becoming a mature leader. And as **terentii** quotes, with a reputation for having been studious. (TOS Kirk was at times a maverick but never a rogue. ) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/167 "2016-09-14T18:38:16Z")
This reminds me of another odd plot-hole in _Wrath of Khan_ - the _Botany Bay_ cargo containers that were apparantly the survivors’ shelter (not to mention the odd coincidence that not a single survivor was there when Chekov and Terrell blundered in). The _Botany Bay_ was discarded in “Space Seed” and there was no indication the _Enterprise_ went back for it and somehow landed it (or at least its cargo hold) on the surface. It kind of makes _sense_ that this would happen - making sure Khan’s crew had familiar technology and supplies (including a shelf full of leatherbound books - one of which was _Moby Dick_), but we have to fanwank it a bit. After beaming down Khan and company, the _Enterprise_ returns to the _Botany Bay_ and rather than let the abandoned ship continue as a potential hazard to navigation, they separated its cargo hold from it and lowered the hold to the new settlement site, directing the remains of the ship toward the nearest star. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/168 "2016-09-14T19:44:24Z")
Has to be that, really. Kirk would have to give the Eugenics at least basic survival supplies, and the _Botany Bay_’s cargo would be the closest source. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/169 "2016-09-14T19:45:11Z")
I think that’s one of the things you have to assume. Kirk isn’t going to beam them down with no supplies. It’s just not interesting to film. A brief line of dialogue about it would be nice, but it’s like the Enterprise’s bathroom…we know it’s there, we just don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/170 "2016-09-14T20:02:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > After beaming down Khan and company, the _Enterprise_ returns to the _Botany Bay_ and rather than let the abandoned ship continue as a potential hazard to navigation, they separated its cargo hold from it and lowered the hold to the new settlement site, directing the remains of the ship toward the nearest star. I don’t believe the \*Botany Bay \* was abandoned at all in the original script. It’s been a long time since I read it, but in the James Blish adaptation, Scotty or Spock asks Kirk what he wants to do with it at the end of the story, and he orders it kept in tow so archaeologists could study it. It would seem that Blish always worked from early draft scripts; in “The Trouble with Tribbles,” for example, he places Sulu in the bar instead of Chekov (George Takei was away making \*\*\*The Green Berets \*\*\*when they ultimately filmed that episode). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/171 "2016-09-14T20:18:04Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Kirk would have to give the Eugenics at least basic survival supplies Yeah, he learned his lesson after he gave the Eurythmics just sweet dreams and they resorted to cannibalism. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/172 "2016-09-19T00:39:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Then Dog help us all, I assume. You leave Porthos out of this! ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/173 "2016-09-19T01:36:00Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Considering that the alternative would have been confinement on a penal colony for the Eugenics and a court-martial and imprisonment for McGivers, I’d say they got off pretty lightly. Not only that, but they seemed quite happy to have a world all to themselves that they could reshape in their own image. (Hopefully, there were no sentient beings on the planet already.) > > It was decided from the beginning to emphasize that the \*Enterprise \*operated in a far-flung sector of the Galaxy, and that the captain, like those in the navies of the 18th and 19th centuries, would have broad discretionary powers, being denied the opportunity to check in with his superiors every time a crisis arose. Had that been the case, Kirk would have been nothing but another cog in the machine, and the series would have been nowhere near as interesting. > > In this context, his decision to maroon them was both logical and appropriate. “Uh, Starfleet? I left freaking KHAN NOONIEN SINGH and a bunch of his genetic augments on Ceti Alpha V. They promised to be good, but since they’ve tried to take over Earth once before, you might want to, you know, keep an eye on them?” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/174 "2016-09-19T02:11:42Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > “Uh, Starfleet? I left freaking KHAN NOONIEN SINGH and a bunch of his genetic augments on Ceti Alpha V. They promised to be good, but since they’ve tried to take over Earth once before, you might want to, you know, keep an eye on them?” "Kirk? Starfleet Command here. Nooooo problemo! We’ll make sure EVERYONE knows who’s there. Of course, all your crew members know already, so we don’t believe you need worry about them. Khan would be, uhm, kinda hard to forget, don’tcha think? Anyway, the Ceti Alpha system is a real shithole. Why would anyone want to go there to begin with? :dubious: " ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/175 "2016-09-19T15:14:57Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Yeah, that bugged me too. Seti Alpha VI exploded, shifting the orbit of Seti Alpha V. So unless all the planets of the Seti Alpha solar system switched positions, how could they land on the fifth planet thinking it’s the sixth? That brings to mind an image of Chekov sitting in front of a console and counting on his fingers. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/176 "2016-09-19T15:38:42Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I don’t believe the \*Botany Bay \* was abandoned at all in the original script. It’s been a long time since I read it, but in the James Blish adaptation, Scotty or Spock asks Kirk what he wants to do with it at the end of the story, and he orders it kept in tow so archaeologists could study it. Kirk’s log says that Kahn ditched _Botany Bay_ when he took over _Enterprise._ ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/177 "2016-09-19T19:22:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Kirk’s log says that Kahn ditched _Botany Bay_ when he took over _Enterprise._ Are you citing the Blish adaptation or the episode as it was filmed? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/178 "2016-09-19T19:53:42Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Are you citing the Blish adaptation or the episode as it was filmed? The episode as it was filmed. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/179 "2016-09-19T20:02:19Z")
4.59 in [this youtube clip.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trp_juimNs4) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492/180 "2016-09-19T20:14:59Z")
I don’t need the clip; I’ve seen the episode many times. I was referring to the Blish adaptation, which was apparently based on an earlier version of the script. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-didnt-realize-how-much-an-abuser-khan-was/765492.md?page=10)