# "I do know that people are dying." **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2003, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745 "2003-04-10T10:15:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/61 "2003-04-11T17:30:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NaSultainne \* > \*\* > > Your final comment is contemptible. \*\* That’s for sure. ☹ Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/62 "2003-04-11T17:53:35Z")
> [@](#): > > That is a different debate. Her comments were already molded by the reporter. This debate is not about her, but about the soundness of the “people are dying” argument as opposition to the War in Iraq. If you care to participate in the debate, please explain why you think the argument is weak or sound. The fact is, people can do both (express an opinion about the argument, and the express an opinion particular way you made the case against the argument), and on the face of things, there isn’t much real debate here on the argument. You made the debate (partly) about her, just as anyone else here would be held responsible for things said about the people they dragged into similar cases. You didn’t make it about the reporter. You didn’t explain (and still haven’t given full context of) how this was explicitly or implicitly framed as an “argument against the war.” Again, knowing a lot about the standard formats that news reporters use to frame reports, I can think of many different rationales and spins for them to be making with this clip, not all of which line up with what you want to argue against. I stand by my assertion that if you wanted to attack the argument with such determined vigor, the least you could do would be to pick a purer and more obvious statement of the view from some figure in the peace movement, or some Arab figure in the Middle East. If this were a thread in which someone was bashing an argument for the particular means of god’s interaction, and the OP used a quote that DIDN’T actually make that argument (or even any argument at all, just expressing thanks), but then went on to call this person ignorant and without concern, you’d be just as bothered by that as I was by this. And you wouldn’t be less bothered just because the OP said the debate wasn’t about that particular person. In fact, I know this, because exactly this happened in the sniper-victim thread, when his thanking of God for his survival was attacked on the assumption that he lacked all conception for the contributions of his doctors. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/63 "2003-04-11T17:58:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aro \* > \*\ ***Lib** , out of curousity: > > 1: Would you kill your 10 closest friends if it meant saving 1000 innocent Iraqis? > \*\* I guess you didn’t see my message on the previous page where I said that my dad was in a similar situation in World War II. Allied bombers were killing his friends, but at the same time helping defeat Hitler. My dad was on the side of the bombers, because he knew that winning the war was their only long term hope. Ed ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/64 "2003-04-11T18:08:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by suranyi \* > \*\*I guess you didn’t see my message on the previous page where I said that my dad was in a similar situation in World War II. Allied bombers were killing his friends, but at the same time helping defeat Hitler. My dad was on the side of the bombers, because he knew that winning the war was their only long term hope. > > Ed \*\* Hi Ed, If your dad is still alive, please give him my thanks for his service and congratulations on his wisdom. I think we can probably all agree with a famous American general who said: “War is hell”. And another quote: “It is well that war is so terrible—we should grow too fond of it.” Robert E. Lee ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/65 "2003-04-11T23:54:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > The innocent civialians that were killed _haven’t_ been saved, they’ve been _killed_. > > I think your use of the word “equating” says a lot more about you than it does about me. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > Kill them to save them just doesn’t cut it. I suggest you review your own words. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/66 "2003-04-12T04:54:01Z")
> [@](#): > > You made the debate (partly) about her, just as anyone else here would be held responsible for things said about the people they dragged into similar cases. You didn’t make it about the reporter. You didn’t explain… I didn’t make this debate about her any more than you are attempting to make it about me. I’ve stated, restated, and stated again the issue. There are people who believe that the war stands condemned based on the deaths of innocent civilians. I’m interested in a debate _on that_. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/67 "2003-04-12T05:48:26Z")
> [@](#): > > I didn’t make this debate about her any more than you are attempting to make it about me. It’s about her, in part, because your OP spends time dissecting her. And it isn’t about you, it’s about your OP. > [@](#): > > I’ve stated, restated, and stated again the issue. There are people who believe that the war stands condemned based on the deaths of innocent civilians. I’m interested in a debate on that. And you got it… or sort of, if by debate you mean general agreement and a couple of hangers on. It’s not like no one here is clear on the issue, or has been avoiding it. My orignial objection to your rhetorical treatment of the woman was a minor addendum to my post. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/68 "2003-04-12T12:35:48Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s about her, in part, because your OP spends time dissecting her. And it isn’t about you, it’s about your OP. Jabberwocky. > [@](#): > > And you got it… or sort of, if by debate you mean general agreement and a couple of hangers on. It’s not like no one here is clear on the issue, or has been avoiding it. My orignial objection to your rhetorical treatment of the woman was a minor addendum to my post. When I’m bored with a debate, I just move on to something else rather than hanging around and raising irrelevant objections in the form of minor addenda. If you have nothing to debate here and should decide to move on, we hangers-on will surely have to double up our efforts and bear considerably more weight in your absence, but we’ll manage. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/69 "2003-04-12T12:53:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NaSultainne \* > \*\*I suggest you review your own words. \*\* I guess that the problem here, **NaSultainne** is that you have no idea what the word “equate” means. If I compare two things and find that they are not the same, that does not mean that I _equated_ them. If you can find a dictionary definition of “equate” that sheds some light on what the fuck you are talking about, please share it with me. **Lib** , chicken out, get bored, as you wish. God forbid that you should actually debate. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/70 "2003-04-12T13:31:47Z")
First, you declared that I was chicken and had abandoned the thread. Now, you’ve declared that I am bored. Frankly, your assessments of reality rival those of Iraq’s former Information Minister, Muhammad Sa’id al-Sahhaf. When will you declare that the thread really isn’t here? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/71 "2003-04-12T14:02:45Z")
That made me laugh, **Lib**. It really did, and I thank you for that. No snarkiness intended. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745/72 "2003-04-12T19:10:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Jabberwocky. I explained my thinking. I’m not sure what this explains. > [@](#): > > When I’m bored with a debate, I just move on to something else rather than hanging around and raising irrelevant objections in the form of minor addenda. I should note that I was responding to NaS, not simply running around bringing the issue up for no reason or as a personal slash and burn. This isn’t an “irrelevant objection” to the debate, it’s an objection to something that was presented as evidence of a view you are attacking. > [@](#): > > If you have nothing to debate here and should decide to move on, we hangers-on will surely have to double up our efforts and bear considerably more weight in your absence, but we’ll manage. I appreciate the cleverness of the sentance. But what would you say if it was directed at you, and you didn’t really want to snipe back? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-do-know-that-people-are-dying/167745.md?page=3)