There is a big difference between actually believing it and just saying or thinking it because it’s the worst, ugliest way your mind can lash out at a problem you can’t do anything about.
I’ve seen people spout nonsense when they’re drunk, if that’s what you mean.
I gather from these kinds of threads that Dopers in general drink less than the general populace. In college we spent most of our freshman weekends (and a good deal of our weekdays) drinking like there was no tomorrow. Nothing too terrible happened. Yes, people tended to be more inappropriate when they were wasted, but most of us were all inappropriate together so I guess no one really cared.
It seems to me that what happens below the frontal lobe of the brain is a whole lot more random and varied than many people would like to admit or realise. We (our personality) are the sum total of those thoughts/reactions/responses and the layer of civility provided by the frontal lobe. But we don’t necessarily know what those lower layer thoughts are and we don’t deliberately choose to filter them, we just do because it is our personality.
A case from the UK - a man was identified as downloading child porn from the internet and arrested. He had no prior record, and those that knew him were utterly shocked by what he had done. So was he. During his processing and interviewing, something alerted one of the staff, and the man was given a MRI that identified a tumour in his frontal lobe. The tumour was removed, and (after a medical and psych eval) he was released without charge. He wasn’t a pedophile in his sum total, but removing a portion of his self-control changed that fact, and the courts recognised this. Later, the tumour came back, as did the pedophilia. He was treated again. Similar things happen with certain medications that increase risk-taking behaviour, and again the courts have recognised that this can be the case. People on medication have developed problem gambling habits due to the drugs influence on their frontal lobe. They were not gamblers, they would never be a gambler until a small portion of the brain was modified by chemicals taken to treat another problem.
So underlying ugly thoughts revealed under the influence of drugs/alcohol/brain injury don’t actually tell you anything about what someone is really like or how they think. It may tell you about which portion of their brain has been deactivated. Who they are and what they think is only revealed by the way they live their life on a day to day basis with all their faculties intact. So I would give the person in Skalds hypothetical a pass, due to a lack of intent and the combination of grief and alcohol. But people who deliberately drink to dis-inhibition and behave badly are making a personal choice to do so, and I would judge them harshly.
Si
I did and said a lot of ridiculous things at the end my drinking career that I wish I never said. Some things I only find out about when I was making amends after becoming sober. I was in a black out.
Only a couple of people refused to forgive me and that is on them. Most forgave me as I was a bad alcoholic. An alcoholic is a sick person and not rational as their brains are literally bathed in alcohol. They say and do things that a sober person would not.
Having said that I really don’t like to be around or hear drunken ramblings today. I would just ignore it and look at the source. Pray for the person because they are very sick. I have seen really sick people get better and it’s a miracle.
Fascinating. So what is “real drinking” and how does exposure to it change your answer to my question?
Being drunk sometimes gives insight into a person. Things said under the influence is from much deeper inside a person’s soul. That is from some hidden hurt, and racism is used as a outlet by producing a target for that anger suffered earlier in life. In many ways it is a cry for help for those who can hear it. We all have our own issues and weaknesses, things and people who upset us, and this person is no different.
This is remarkably sane. Thank you.
As a drinker who has perhaps too often acted like an asshole when drunk, I have to say that I agree with those who say that, broadly, allowances should not be made in general. But it really depends on the specific circumstances.
If you are under 30 in the UK (and of course the US and many other countries), it is common to “drink to get drunk”. I have done it myself, though I feel I am gradually growing out of it. In such cases, I don’t think bad behaviour does deserve a pass, usually, as such behaviour is a known consequence of getting drunk.
I think a lot of the answer to the OP has to do with what is construed as “behaving like an asshole”, too. When I was in college I’d have made the same claims as Hyde (spilled more than most here have drank!), and my buddies and I still get our serious drink on a few times a year. Now, a lot of times, there’s significantly more flirting and venting of pet peeves and sobbing apologies for half-remembered slights and whatnot, but it never really rises to the level of assholery, in my opinion. At certain of these parties, a good rousing fistfight isn’t considered assholish, though, but rather looked upon as a really informal boxing match. (yes, I drink with a lot of very stereotypical Irish guys).
On the other hand, we threw a guy out of my New Years party the other year because he got out a switchblade while sloshed at around 2am and was flailing it around while bragging about how he was so good with knives he could even handle it safely while drunk. THAT guy was an asshole.
People don’t act like assholes when they’re drunk. They really are assholes. They’re just able to act like non-assholes when they’re sober.
People don’t fall over when they are drunk. They really fall over all the time. They’re just able to not fall over when they are sober.
I don’t think the specific behavior matters. It’s just whether “He’s acting like an asshole, but he’s drunk so I’ll give him a pass” or the like is something you’d ever think.
Dizziness and loss of balance are effects of alcohol consumption. Do you feel alcohol consumption also causes racism?
People’s filters are part of their brain, you can’t just take one without the other. In regards to the hypothetical girl we were talking about, racist words like cuss words are powerful. You do not have to believe them to say them. She was hurt (or blames her hurt) on a black guy and a Jewish guy, she feels hatred toward them. She then proceeds while drunk to say the most vile and hurtful things she can think of. From that you cannot determine how she feels about all black people or Jews, or whether she feels what she is saying is logical or truthful in the bigger picture. What you are doing is taking a tiny sample, under extreme emotional stress and the effects of alcohol , and putting more weight to that tiny sample than the whole of the rest of her life. That’s just crazy.
How many drinks do you consider a lot, in a given night?
For whom? My dad would regularly drink over a 12 pack of beer, though it was usually more like four or five after he got home from a bar.
I’ve never known anyone for more than a paltry amount of time who hasn’t acted like an asshole at least once. Drinking or being drunk doesn’t absolve you of your behavior, if you act like a dick you’re being a dick. No sane person is going to argue that, but if you drink very often or have a social group where drinking is common, then it’s pretty stupid for you to get bent out of shape over someone acting like an ass during a night of drinking.
People who get drunk at white-lace dinner parties with SDMB people only have themselves to blame for wanting to cut loose with people that are social stiffs. There’s a time and place to drink a lot, and part of the difference between someone who is an alcoholic and someone who just really enjoys drinking is not knowing where the difference lies.
Night out with my buddies at our local bar? I get as drunk as I want to get.
Family dinner with lots of relatives of all ages and alcohol being served? That’s when you drink one or two as a social lubricant but refrain from getting drunk.
The real problem and the reason people in this thread have a problem is they are non-drinkers who have acquaintances/friends who don’t know where to properly segment their drinking. Sometimes it is because of alcoholism and sometimes it is just because some people have bad sense.
Well that’s the point, isn’t it? The “for whom” question is the crux of it, but obviously you have opinions about what is too much to drink in a night.
Again, fascinating.
To reiterate the actual question from the OP, since I guess you didn’t read it (as is obvious by your misunderstanding of what “the point” is):
So, do you forgive someone easier if they do jerky things while intoxicated?
I’m not Martin Hyde, obviously, but yeah, within reason. Alcohol lowers inhibitions. This means that people do things they wouldn’t typically do sober. Now obviously there’s a line. Hitting *on *someone you normally wouldn’t when you’re drunk is not an egregious offense. Hitting them is.
For the vast majority of stupid or jerkish things that people do drunk, the embarrassment is punishment enough. That’s because most people are fundamentally okay, but they still have some socially inappropriate impulses. People who do seriously assholish things when they’re drunk are generally the sort of people you don’t have to see drunk to realize they’re assholes.