# I don't believe man has ventured beyond low earth orbit. Change my mind. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2018, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114 "2018-08-05T03:01:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/1 "2018-08-05T03:01:53Z")
I believe no answer has been found to solve the radiation hazard space poses. I believe space travel beyond the Van Allen Belts is to risky to attempt. I believe the Apollo Missions were a hoax. Prove me wrong and change my mind. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/2 "2018-08-05T03:05:31Z")
Present your case. Lay out the evidence you have. That’s how debates work. Then we tear you into little bitty shreds. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/3 "2018-08-05T03:06:07Z")
Why bother? This is not a position a person who values evidence can hold for long, so providing evidence is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/4 "2018-08-05T03:13:34Z")
Background radiation in space beyond the VAB is 24mgy/day. Even if the VAB did not exist this should be the minimum radiation level of all of the Apollo missions. Only two missions were above this level. The radiation of the moon itself is 30% higher than background space radiation. There is absolutely no way man ever stepped foot on the moon. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/5 "2018-08-05T03:17:51Z")
What data are you using to conclude that the radiation hazard is unsurvivable? Do you believe the radiation is instantly lethal? If not, suppose the (alleged) Apollo astronauts have a 50% increased lifetime risk of cancer, which is not insignificant. Would that disprove the Apollo program? ETA: I see you partly-answered while I was typing. What’s your source for this data? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/6 "2018-08-05T03:19:15Z")
As a matter of fact, all of the Apollo lunar mission radiation exposures fall within the parameters of all the other LEO missions despite the fact they supposedly transversed the VAB and landed on a radioactive moon. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/7 "2018-08-05T03:19:32Z")
Extraordinary claims need to be backed up by extraordinary proof. It has all been done many times before. Here’s the thing though, people that don’t believe it have decided to give a great deal value to conspiracy theories and no value to reputable sources so no amount of proof will sway them. It appears they just like making people jump through hoops for their own amusement. But, perhaps, you can prove yourself open minded and swayable to facts. Explain why you believe there is such a thing as the Van Allen Belts and how do you think they work? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/8 "2018-08-05T03:21:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What data are you using to conclude that the radiation hazard is unsurvivable? Do you believe the radiation is instantly lethal? If not, suppose the (alleged) Apollo astronauts have a 50% increased lifetime risk of cancer, which is not insignificant. Would that disprove the Apollo program? > > ETA: I see you partly-answered while I was typing. What’s your source for this data? It is not that I necessarily believe the exposure would be lethal. I believe it must be much larger than the reported exposure levels. There is a distinct possibility exposure could be lethal should a solar flare occur while outside the VAB. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/9 "2018-08-05T03:21:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What data are you using to conclude that the radiation hazard is unsurvivable? Do you believe the radiation is instantly lethal? If not, suppose the (alleged) Apollo astronauts have a 50% increased lifetime risk of cancer, which is not insignificant. Would that disprove the Apollo program? > > ETA: I see you partly-answered while I was typing. What’s your source for this data? Also, have you looked into what materials were used to shield the astronauts from radiation, and what their actual exposure was? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/10 "2018-08-05T03:23:17Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > Extraordinary claims need to be backed up by extraordinary proof. > It has all been done many times before. > > Here’s the thing though, people that don’t believe it have decided to give a great deal value to conspiracy theories and no value to reputable sources so no amount of proof will sway them. It appears they just like making people jump through hoops for their own amusement. > > But, perhaps, you can prove yourself open minded and swayable to facts. Explain why you believe there is such a thing as the Van Allen Belts and how do you think they work? Your question confuses me. I did not think the presence of the VAB is in question. Please try harder to be reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/11 "2018-08-05T03:25:31Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Also, have you looked into what materials were used to shield the astronauts from radiation, and what their actual exposure was? You don’t have to look any farther than the ISS in orbit even as we speak. It has state of the art shielding, many times more effective than the aluminum shielding of the Apollo crafts and it is incapable of approaching within two hundred mile of the VAB. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/12 "2018-08-05T03:26:37Z")
> [@Lord\_Foul](#): > > It is not that I necessarily believe the exposure would be lethal. I believe it must be much larger than the reported exposure levels. There is a distinct possibility exposure could be lethal should a solar flare occur while outside the VAB. Why do you believe it must be much larger than the reported exposure levels? And even if it was, do you believe it is impossible for a crew to survive for two weeks, the maximum duration of an Apollo mission? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/13 "2018-08-05T03:28:34Z")
> [@Lord\_Foul](#): > > You don’t have to look any farther than the ISS in orbit even as we speak. It has state of the art shielding, many times more effective than the aluminum shielding of the Apollo crafts and it is incapable of approaching within two hundred mile of the VAB. That’s because it’s up there permanently. The Apollo craft went through in a very short time. You can dip your fingers in molten lead without injury if you do it fast enough. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/14 "2018-08-05T03:31:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What data are you using to conclude that the radiation hazard is unsurvivable? Do you believe the radiation is instantly lethal? If not, suppose the (alleged) Apollo astronauts have a 50% increased lifetime risk of cancer, which is not insignificant. Would that disprove the Apollo program? > > ETA: I see you partly-answered while I was typing. What’s your source for this data? Refer to page 7 of this document. [https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/tnD7080RadProtect.pdf](https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/tnD7080RadProtect.pdf) The radiation data from the Mars probe is an outstanding reference also. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/15 "2018-08-05T03:37:58Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That’s because it’s up there permanently. The Apollo craft went through in a very short time. > > You can dip your fingers in molten lead without injury if you do it fast enough. I would love to see you dip your fingers in molten lead but I digress. The Apollo lunar transit required over four hours to to travel the 37000 miles of the Van Allen Belt. An outstanding indication of the expected exposure can be extrapolated from the Orion EFT mission of 2014. It is important to note that the Orion uses the latest technology in radiation shielding and the Apollo had no dedicated ration shielding and relied solely on superstructure, heat shielding and equipment for ration shielding. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/16 "2018-08-05T03:38:07Z")
> [@Lord\_Foul](#): > > There is absolutely no way man ever stepped foot on the moon. There is a vast myriad of evidence that proves it happened and the way it was achieved. But those - like yourself - that are convinced and not open to those facts cannot be reasoned with… it is just a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/17 "2018-08-05T03:43:37Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > There is a vast myriad of evidence that proves it happened and the way it was achieved. But those - like yourself - that are convinced and not open to those facts cannot be reasoned with… it is just a waste of time. There has been a half century of indoctrination and a concerted effort by the liars to perpetuate the lie. If a thing cannot be then it isn’t. Every shred of post Apollo data is proof that a lunar transit cannot be accomplished at the reported exposure levels. Either the reported levels are erroneous or they never left LEO. You pick the one that eases you cognitive dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/18 "2018-08-05T03:44:23Z")
> [@Lord\_Foul](#): > > I believe no answer has been found to solve the radiation hazard space poses. I believe space travel beyond the Van Allen Belts is to risky to attempt. I believe the Apollo Missions were a hoax. Prove me wrong and change my mind. Why should we? ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/19 "2018-08-05T03:45:44Z")
> [@Lord\_Foul](#): > > Your question confuses me. I did not think the presence of the VAB is in question. Please try harder to be reasonable. Hilarious. You take one thing on blind faith and can’t be bothered to explain why but arbitrarily decide all this Moon stuff is bunk. Reasonably, you would equally believe that all this radiation belt nonsense is a hoax also. Maybe it’s to keep naive people trapped on Earth and escaping to the Moon. Consider that. I just gave you a conspiracy theory on top of a conspiracy theory. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2018, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114/20 "2018-08-05T03:52:03Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why do you believe it must be much larger than the reported exposure levels? And even if it was, do you believe it is impossible for a crew to survive for two weeks, the maximum duration of an Apollo mission? An examination of all mission through and beyond the VAB indicates exposure would be much higher. The Orion EFT in 2014, the Indian CHANDRAYAAN-1, and The MSL/RAD mission to mars all indicate the background radiation in space is to high for the Apollo mission doses to be realistic. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-believe-man-has-ventured-beyond-low-earth-orbit-change-my-mind/819114.md?page=2)