I don't believe you when you say diet and exercise don't work. It's also kind of insulting.

[SticksAndString]

@Loach

Actually it will. Well not the short part. This is not about looks. It’s about health. You may never have a models body. I will never have a models body. But good diet and exercise makes you healthier and makes you feel better. It’s not about looks.

I’m going to be honest…I stopped caring about my looks years ago.

I do the best I can to get exercise (mainly walking, using my exercise bike when it’s not buried in my husband’s crap out in the garage and using Wii Fit Plus), I’m not going to diet. I’ve been there, done that and it’s just too difficult. You can’t eat anything that tastes any good..it all has to be whole wheat this and organic that and fruit and plain vegetables with very little sauce or whatever. No meat, no bread (which I adore), no pasta, no sugar. I might as well be eating birdseed at that point. There’s nothing wrong with eating that kind of stuff, but it just isn’t for me.

[Princhester]

@ladyfoxfyre

Did I come in here to charm?

I see, so I said you were judgmental and you denied it till you were faced with overwhelming evidence you were being judgmental, at which point you excuse being judgmental by explaining that you were deliberately being judgmental and that this is the forum for being judgmental.

Further your simple (and trust me when I say I mean that in the most judgmental possible sense) view doesn’t work because it doesn’t understand the problem. You seem to think of yourself as having some sort of pragmatic no-nonsense approach. Here’s some news: a pragmatic no-nonsense approach that doesn’t work 97% of the time is about as far from pragmatic as something can be, and is pure nonsense.

[Rand_Rover]

@Maeglin

Just throw the off-the-rack shirts into the fucking trash and get made to measure shirts. No pocket, no monogram, hand-stitched buttonholes. You won’t regret it.

Word. I’ve done that too. The tailor thing was basically a way to get a brand new shirt for $15 (instead of the $100+ for MTM).

Problem I’m having now is I’m starting to hulk out of a lot of my shirts (getting tight in the shoulder and lat areas.

[Rand_Rover]

The main problem with these types of discussions is that there are two ways to view obesity: as a public health problem and as a personal issue.

Viewed as a public health problem, it makes sense to say things like “diet and exercise don’t work” and to think about things like banning large sodas and trans fats, etc. This is basically the view that imagines Bob and Joe sitting at their big control board watching humans like a herd of cattle, adjusting inputs and seeing what the effect is on outputs.

Viewed as a personal issue, saying “diet and exercise don’t work” is completely stupid. Of course they work if one actually does them.

And the evidence that so few fatties succeed in un-fatifying themselves says nothing about the personal issue–if any particular fatty diets and exercises, they will lose weight. All those studies really show is that people with the mental make-up to get fat in the first place will, lo and behold, stay that way, even after trying to not be that way for a short period. What a revelation! It turns out that drinkers are often found drinking and smokers are often found smoking. Who knew?

So, fatties, you can’t use those studies as an excuse for your fatness. Go diet and exercise, and you will lose weight.

[TonySinclair]

@Kevbo

Diet and exercise is an effective strategy for losing weight in exactly the same way that abstinence is an effective means of preventing teen pregnancy and STD infections.

Both are undeniably effective when the patient follows directions. Both completely ignore well documented facts of human behavior. Advocates of both are sure to blame the patient when the prescription isn’t followed, and so does not produce the desired outcome.

So if I understand the analogy, the people who claim that diet and exercise don’t work for them, even when followed diligently, are the analogs of people who believe in virgin birth.

[Chimera]

@Dolukhanova

Bear in mind that these people are as stupid as they are nasty.

You decide this about everyone who disagrees with you, don’t you.

[bump]

I don’t think people are saying that diet and exercise flat out don’t work, but that they do work, but instead, that the route to weight loss is extraordinarily difficult because the time scales are long (you try sticking to a diet of some arbitrary number of calories for 9 months!) and that your body tends to work against you in many ways- set point mechanisms, etc…

In my experience, the effort is almost an exponential curve; it’s easy enough to buckle down and lose 20 lbs. It’s a lot harder to keep that up for 40 lbs, and it’s a freaking Labor of Hercules to continue it on to 60. It’s possible- I’ve done it in the past, but it’s extremely hard. At some point, you just want to live your life and not be consumed by calorie counting, having to spend a lot of your free time exercising, and not being able to just go have a burger and a couple of beers with your friends, without having to literally starve yourself later, or knowingly deprive yourself of any of that kind of pleasure and camaraderie except for once in a blue moon, because you’re trying to lose weight.

Then once you do lose the weight, you had better hope you had implemented an entire lifestyle change, or else you’ll eat like you did, and gain it back sooner or later. And, if you didn’t like that lifestyle that got you thin, you probably won’t much enjoy the one that will keep you thin.

Basically, I’m saying that it can be done, but it sucks and for a lot of people is unrealistic with all the other demands of modern life. Good luck having small children and having the time and energy to count calories, exercise hours a day, and manage to appropriately care for them.

I think a lot of never-fat people have an unrealistic idea of what “diet and exercise” actually is, and it’s awfully condescending to just go around proclaiming that we’re lazy and if we’d just diet and exercise we’d be thin. It’s just as idiotic and condescending as telling a smoker to just quit, or an alcoholic to just quit drinking. We all know those two don’t work that way, so why does everyone assume that being overweight or obese do?

[al27052]

Actually, juice-fasting drops about a pound a day for most people, and most people find it quite easy. Few know about it, though, most people who DO know about it dismiss it as crazy-people stuff, but it works like no other method.

(and here comes the onslaught of people who think they know things.)

The really difficulty is keeping the weight off, though…very few people have the motivation.

[Princhester]

@TonySinclair

So if I understand the analogy…

If.

[dropzone]

@DSeid

I just cannot believe there is yet another one of these threads.

The following are some basic facts:

Yeah, but what do YOU know? You’re just an MD while SecretaryofEvil is fit.

I’m not curious enough to sift through pages of the same old same old, but I’m mildly curious why he chooses to be insulted by the physiques, metabolisms, and explanations of other people. Sounds a wee bit stuck on himself.

[TonySinclair]

@DSeid

There really is virtually no one who believes that it is literally impossible to lose weight and the very few who do would be very deluded.

@aruvqan

So a hearty fuck you for disbelieving that there are people who literally can’t lose weight no matter what.

Gee, we didn’t have to look very far, did we?

[BlackKnight]

@bump

I think a lot of never-fat people have an unrealistic idea of what “diet and exercise” actually is, and it’s awfully condescending to just go around proclaiming that we’re lazy and if we’d just diet and exercise we’d be thin.

Never-fat people probably have a much better idea of what “diet and exercise” is than fat people. They have more experience with diet and exercise. It is, after all, why they have never been fat.

Has a single person in this thread called fat people “lazy”? If they have, I’ve managed to miss it. What I find condescending is telling non-fat people that they don’t know what diet and exercise are.

[Meyer6]

@monstro

I think it is. Obesity can lead to mega amounts of self-hatred, which is the backbone of depression. But how much of that self-hatred stems from a sense of failure and lack of self-acceptance? If a person could believe that they were are not a bad person just because they are obese, then maybe a lot of the mental health problems associated with obesity would diminish.

This is a point that often gets ignored - weight problems and depression can form a vicious cycle that is hard to break. I’ve struggled with my weight in the past (although I was never obese), and looking back I can see that it tracked pretty well with depressive episodes. But it’s a chicken and egg scenario - who knows whether you gain weight because of your low mood or whether poor diet and exercise lead to depression? Either way it can be tough to get that cycle under control, but it is possible.

It would be nice if we could separate weight from self-worth, because the judgment heaped on fat people is really not very helpful. Every single time this topic comes up it quickly devolves into “haha, fatty is stupid and worthless” vs. "I only eat 1500 calories a day and work out regularly but still weigh 300 pounds, it’s just the way I was made!'. Both sides of that argument are pointless and one is almost certainly a lie. Surely we could find some middle ground without all the judgment and the defensiveness?

I’m sure there are obese people who are simply lazy and gluttonous, but I also think it’s likely that losing weight really is harder for some people than for others. Similarly, I appreciate that there are lots of fit people who are diligent and careful about their weight, but I know for sure there are others who just find that staying thin comes naturally to them (I’ve certainly known several skinny beer-drinking fast food-gobbling guys who freely admitted that they never exercised). There’s just no way to accurately judge how much effort someone is putting in unless you spend a hell of a lot of time with them, so the snap judgment of both fat and thin people is pointless and, as the OP said, kind of insulting.

Having said all that, the basic fact is that it is absolutely asinine for anyone to claim that it is literally impossible for them to lose weight. It’s always possible to change your life if you really want to badly enough, some changes are just more difficult than others.

[Tibby]

You skinny people make me nauseous. Listen up, for the past 3 weeks I’ve cut the portion sizes of my mid-afternoon snack down to medium fries, small shake and only a double bacon cheeseburger. And, I sit on my custom Vibra-aerobic Barcalounger Affinity II at least 3 hours every night. And guess what? I still have a big fat ass. So, don’t tell me I’m not a barometrically-challenged individual with metabolic hypersensitivities.

[Jragon]

@al27052

Actually, juice-fasting drops about a pound a day for most people, and most people find it quite easy. Few know about it, though, most people who DO know about it dismiss it as crazy-people stuff, but it works like no other method.

(and here comes the onslaught of people who think they know things.)

The really difficulty is keeping the weight off, though…very few people have the motivation.

Er… nobody denies that juice diets, like any crash diet, make you lose weight. The criticisms they get are EXACTLY that people can’t keep the weight off. For one, you have to ** permanently** change your eating and exercise habits. You’re not going to juice-diet forever. That’s the problem, ideally the diet you use to lose weight will be as close as possible to the diet (and I hesitate to use “diet” preferably you’ll just find filling low calorie food you like and learn how to cook in a manner that satisfies that) you’ll follow forever after you hit your target weight, because that’s how you keep the weight off.

Also, I’ve heard doing diets like that can trash your metabolism, but I ain’t a nutritionist or a biologist so I’ll keep my trap shut so someone more knowledgeable can speak on that.

[gamerunknown]

@Rand Rover

This is basically the view that imagines Bob and Joe sitting at their big control board watching humans like a herd of cattle, adjusting inputs and seeing what the effect is on outputs.

Kinda like wage labour, huh? Except with more people participating.

Anyway, part of the problem is indubitably cultural. The region with the highest percentage of overweight and obese people in Sweden has a lower rate than the region with the lowest in England. England in turn has lower levels of obesity than most US states as far as I can tell. Perhaps if the US adopted similar public health and advertising strategies as Sweden obesity rates would decline (though I assume there are several confounds).

Anyway, I actually find exercise incredibly dull. The only time I got any rush from it was when I took an exercise supplement which my personal trainer friend had spare and found I could get through the routine a lot quicker, but he later advised me not to take them. What works for me is doing it as soon as I wake up. Stick in earphones, get it over with and shower. Leaves the rest of the day free. I also advocate switching entirely to water and having oats for breakfast, plus cottage cheese sandwiches (vegetarians on averageeat more food containing carbohydrates and less with protein, yet have lower incidences of obesity). Fruit as a snack is good, especially dipped in yoghurt.

[Steophan]

@BlackKnight

Never-fat people probably have a much better idea of what “diet and exercise” is than fat people. They have more experience with diet and exercise. It is, after all, why they have never been fat.

Has a single person in this thread called fat people “lazy”? If they have, I’ve managed to miss it. What I find condescending is telling non-fat people that they don’t know what diet and exercise are.

I’m fat, at least in part because I’m lazy and gluttonous. I rather doubt I’m the only person for whom this is true. There’s also mental health issues to add to the equation.

Anyone who wants to judge me on this is welcome to. I’d rather be lazy and gluttonous than dishonest, and blame my failings on everyone else.

[monstro]

@BlackKnight

Never-fat people probably have a much better idea of what “diet and exercise” is than fat people. They have more experience with diet and exercise. It is, after all, why they have never been fat.

As a never-been fat person who does exercise and counts calories, I have to concede that I’m still lucky. Not lucky in the sense that everything just magically falls into my lap. But I’m lucky enough not to have to deal with the pressures that contribute to obesity. Like raising children in today’s eat-eat-eat media climate, engaging in social activities that crystalize over food, or being especially emotionally reactive. I also have enough time built into my schedule to squeeze in 3 hours of exercise. It’s an obsession almost, but it’s one that I can afford it. Most people are not this fortunate.

It does piss me off when someone says they hate me for being so lucky, since I am so mindful about what I do. If I had my druthers, I’d knock back a milk shake every evening (mmm…strawberry milk shakes!) But it doesn’t take away a single thing from me to acknowledge that simply being a never-fat person gives me an advantage over someone who can’t say the same. Being thin, IMHO, is reward enough. It’s not a contest.

[MeanOldLady]

@Anaamika

I do not stuff my face with cookies or what-have-you like everyone seems to believe about fat people. In february I undertook to replace one meal - lunch - completely with salad. I haven’t wavered from this and eat salads every single day at lunch. I think I’ve not done it maybe five times.

I also eat a very light breakfast (glass of 2% milk + oatmeal), and my afternoon snack tends to be a cup of decaf…and I eat lots of fruit and veggies. My only big meal is dinner, and yes, I do have a late night dessert or something. I’m accepting of this.

I also exercise at least four times a week - during the summer I’ve been swimming. In the winter I dance. i also bike and take the stairs everywhere I go.

And yet I’m still fat. Why? Because i got fat when i was younger and had bad habits.

I was happy to ignore the one jillionth iteration of “This is Why You’re Fat,” but much like an obese woman in a doughtnut shop, I have lost self-control. No, kidding! That’s a joke, people, stop throwing things.

Non-joke part: Sorry, lady, but I don’t believe this. Your breakfast consists of low fat milk and oatmeal, lunch is always a salad, followed by a large dinner, plus you exercise 4x/week, but you’re fat? This sounds almost exactly like what I do, minus the dessert part. And yes, I KNOW (don’t start) that everyone’s metabolisms are different, and it might be easy for me to finger wag, missy-who’s-never-had-a-weight-problem, so I can’t say “Well this is my lifestyle and I weigh x, which means you should too.” But I can say I’d like to know the total caloric intake of this exceedingly reasonable diet and what kind of exercise you’re doing. How long have you been doing this for?

@Rand_Rover

And the evidence that so few fatties succeed in un-fatifying themselves says nothing about the personal issue–if any particular fatty diets and exercises, they will lose weight. All those studies really show is that people with the mental make-up to get fat in the first place will, lo and behold, stay that way, even after trying to not be that way for a short period. What a revelation! It turns out that drinkers are often found drinking and smokers are often found smoking. Who knew?

So, fatties, you can’t use those studies as an excuse for your fatness. Go diet and exercise, and you will lose weight.

Thank you for your encouragement and diplomacy.

[carlb]

@olivesmarch4th

I never figured skinny people into the equation when it came to the statistics. Scientists have mostly studied people who need to lose weight. Our obesity stats are scary high, but if you think about it, that means 60% are still doing it right. This means that we could probably learn a lot from thin people.

So, no more sweets in the house (except dark chocolate - I like that idea.) We’ll start there.

Let me offer just one more refinement to this plan (at least, a refinement that worked for me). Take a minute or two when you buy your bar of dark chocolate, and portion it out into individual squares (or pairs of squares, or whatever your “dose” of chocolate is) and wrap them in cellophane. It is a lot easier to overindulge when faced with an entire bar of chocolate, even if your intent is to only eat a small portion of it. The act of deliberately reaching for that second little bit of chocolate is (at least for me) a more conscious decision than simply eating more of the bar in front of me, and it’s just a bit easier to say, “No, I won’t do that right now.”

Small, incremental, sustainable changes are the way to go, at least as long as there isn’t some acute problem that requires immediate and drastic change. It took me a year or more to wean myself off of Coca-Cola, but I did it. It just started with drinking a little less this week than I did last week. It’s why the typical “diet” doesn’t work; it’s too much to fast. Let the slightly more healthy thing become a habit, and then make another small healthy change. Eventually they all just become “lifestyle” or “you,” and not a “diet” or a radical change.