I don't believe you when you say diet and exercise don't work. It's also kind of insulting.

Diets-- wait let me rephrase that – lifestyle changes of eating fewer calories than one needs to maintain weight, and exercising to increase one’s fitness and burn calories, don’t “fail.” That is, they don’t fail on their own. They fail, if they do, because of several external reasons that many have posted, plus one reason that hasn’t been posted: one’s emotional / psychological issues surrounding food and weight/body image.

It’s very easy to sabotage oneself when attempting a significant lifestyle change, if you are unaware of the reasons for being overweight in the first place, and I mean the real reasons, not just the “he eats 'cause junk food tastes good and he has no will power” or “she eats 'cause she’s just a lazy fat pig” reasons. I’m sure a few people fit those descriptions, but I really don’t think it’s the majority.

Some people – and I think healthy, love-to-exercise types don’t necessarily know this (though some do) – are afraid to lose weight. The weight might be performing some emotional / psychological function; maybe it keeps them from doing things they fear, maybe it ‘allows’ them to remain unapproachable. It can be a shield or a wall. There are many downsides to being fat and I’m sure everyone on the SDMB can enumerate them. But there are benefits too, even though they seem incomprehensible and counterproductive to people who think being overweight is simply a despicable lack of will power.

I’ll stop speaking generally and speak specifically. I’m overweight. I have lost weight many times and know it can be done. I’ve regained the weight just as many times.

It’s significant that at none of these times, during the lifestyle changes I attempted and succeeded at for several months, was I concurrently seeing a therapist to deal with the issues that my decreasing weight was bringing up for me. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that I continually sabotaged myself whenever I reached the point where I started getting more notice from men (yes, I said “more” – even at my heaviest, for whatever reason, I was still getting asked for my phone number; I remember thinking in exasperation, “How fucking fat do I have to get before they leave me alone? Am I some kind of magnet for every chubby chaser in NYC?”).

After finally seeking some therapy I realized that this mental exasperation shows exactly what I use my weight for, and why I get uncomfortable when my body approaches the thin side of the spectrum. For some reason I still haven’t figured out, I feel incredibly vulnerable as a thinner person. It’s like I’d have no right to say “no” to anyone or anything. My weight shelters me from attention I don’t want, or dont’ think I can handle. Of course it certainly doesn’t shelter me from negative attention; nor does it shelter me from the pain of not doing things I want to do because of shame. The thing I loved most in my life, performing, was no longer accessible to me. My weight took me out of the running for that. And maybe that was another thing I was letting my weight take care of: fear of failure, of competition.

All in all, I’d say my weight has a lot of pressure on it. Look at how much I’m relying on it just because I’m neurotic and scared! If my weight could talk it would probably say “stop fucking making me do all this! If you don’t want to do something, just don’t do it, don’t blame me for it.”

My current shrink and I are working on these issues, and doing so at the same time as dealing with the eating for all sorts of emotional reasons; eating instead of expressing anger, eating instead of feeling lonely, you name it.

Anyway, sorry to get all bloggy here. All this is not to say that the people the OP is kvetching about aren’t exactly wrong. And the OP isn’t wrong either. Of course taking in fewer calories than one requires will result in lost weight, even if it’s at a slower rate than the dieter would prefer. It’s not impossible. (I think the OP and many others who express this similar frustration are taking “it’s impossible” literally, when most people using it are being hyperbolic.)

But if you continually find yourself dieting and stopping before you reach your goal, or dieting and regaining your weight, it’s not the diet’s fault, and honestly it’s not the fat person’s fault either. It’s quite likely unconscious, or subconscious, self-sabotage, and (assuming one wants to lose the weight) one needs to find out why.

For the lucky folks who just ate a bit too much in college and gained the typical Freshman Twenty or maybe now live more sedentary lives in an office, there may be no psychological component, and more power to ya if you don’t have to address anything else but your excercise and eating habits. But please believe me when I say that for some of us, diet and excercise alone really won’t work in the long run, if we don’t address what this weight is doing for us. Because there clearly is a benefit, maybe more than one, and until that is addressed, until both the body and the mind get workouts, the yo-yo cycle will continue.

Are you a fucking retard?

Hm, the degenerative joint disorders that I have in my spine, sacrum [bilateral], hip sockets, knees[bilateral] and feet [bilateral] combined with living out in the ass end of nowhere and no access to a free swimming pool, and no money for a second vehicle and the $80 copay for the 18 sessions of physiotherapy that tricare grudgingly allots me each year for the exercise part, and a nutritionist mandated 1600-1800 cal per day nutritional profile for the eat less part. It is even specified that my breakfasts will consist of specific foods, my lunches will be specific foods, my 2 allowed snacks are specific foods. The only random choice is my supper and 4 allowed cheat dinners per year [1 birthday, and 3 random events such as someones wedding or dinner party.] I haven’t had a random piece of cake that wasn’t somehow already scheduled for in years.

I would fucking kill for the ability to eat whatever I want whenever I want without having to worry about organ damage or losing body parts or neurological function. [and i would kill for the ability to walk without crutches on good days or get out of the fucking wheelchair on bad days, and get out of bed without massive drugs on really bad days.]

<checks to see I am in the pit>

So a hearty fuck you for disbelieving that there are people who literally can’t lose weight no matter what.

Congrats on trying to argue that the laws of thermodynamics are invalid. Care to share your ground breaking research?

Yes, there ARE people with serious complicating factors like yours that make weightloss a near impossibilty. But IMO its a fraction of overweight folks.

But, IMO you should send a good bit of that “fuck you” out to the large fraction of fat folks that actually COULD loose some weight and try to lump themselves in with people like you so they can feel better about being overweight when its mostly their own fault.

Cite, please.

choie, that post was incredible and touching, and very enlightening. Thank you for sharing that with us, and good luck to you with your struggles.

Well, that about wraps this thread.

Blah blah blah. You find a way. If you really want it.

What the motherfucking fuck.

Oh, sorry, I didn’t know having degenerative joint disorders and a medical condition that forces you to adhere to a specified diet counted as a “lifestyle”. My bad. You fucking tard.

For people without debilitating disorders, I still fail to see how their “lifestyle” doesn’t allow time for exercise.

Given that, 20, 30, 40 years ago, the percentage of the population that was overweight was nowhere near where it is now, claims that it is impossible to lose weight, you/we/everyone is “predisposed” to be heavy, etcetera, etcetera; are positively ludicrous on the face of it. And I say that from a position of being about 35 pounds heavier than I want to be. I know goddamned well it’s diet, exercise and lifestyle, and most of us (myself included) are far too comfortable in our lifestyles.

The numbers vary. If you read this, you’ll note that several studies put long term weight loss success at around 2%, but this particular study indicates more like 20%. That’s still pretty low. It’s not to say that diet and exercise programs, if followed perfectly, don’t work, but clearly the population has a very difficult time applying these lifestyle changes in the long term – despite not only the health benefits but the benefits in attracting a partner and in social acceptance, ease of day to day activities, et cetera. There are a lot of reasons for that, but it’s clear that (in the absence of other changes) that the vast majority of people who need to lose weight have a hard time doing so and keeping it off.

I think it would be valuable, rather than harping at people for not being able to do what most people can’t make themselves do, to find better ways to support and encourage healthy weight loss and reasonable expectations. It’s clear that simply telling people to diet and exercise is not enough to successfully defatten us as a population. Maybe that means better nutritional education, better medical understanding of successful weight loss programs, better insurance coverage of weight loss programs (mine covers zilch in that department unless you need bariatric surgery, I checked), more pressure on workplaces to have reasonable hours, gyms and healthy food available, better food labeling – who knows. There is a huge industry out there taking advantage of people who need to lose weight with all kinds of scary bullshit, so it’s clear that it’s not that people don’t want to lose weight or they won’t try – they just don’t know how to do so, long term, in a way that works for them.

I’m taking a giant breath right…now!

Oh, and hey, let me point out that, up until the last 20 years or so, the standard ‘meal’ at McDonalds was a regular hamburger, a small fries and a 12 ounce (yes, you read that right) coke.

We eat a fuckload more than we used to, and we consider it ‘normal’.

Invoking the laws of thermodynamics seems glib. Clearly, biology plays some role in the matter; an elephant can’t diet and exercise its way to a mouse’s size, only to malnutrition, exhaustion, and death. Now, of course, the variation within human biology is not nearly on that scale, and perhaps not significant at all, from a weight loss perspective. But I only want to say that “Laws of thermodynamics! Laws of thermodynamics! Your individual genetics can’t play any role!” is glib and not quite the irrefutable, mathematically perfect takedown it gets used as.

This. I just watched an online video of a film made about 60 years ago. 5 or 6 people in it. Shit, none of them were even remotely chunky. Today, 1 would be okay, 1 would be chunky, 1 fat and the rest pushing the obese boundaries.

“Genetics” is vastly overplayed and, for the most of us, completely invalid as an excuse. Were your family members going back for 100 years all slovenly fat? Well then maybe you have some grounds, although family culture still could be playing into it. But if your family has slowly been getting heavier over the last 20-40 years, it’s not fucking genetics, ok?

How much longer are you planning on living? If it’s for more than a couple of years, you’d be at your ideal weight level in 18 months and then you maintain it, which required evening out your calories in/out, not maintaining a deficit.

Losing 48 pounds is proof more exercise and less food works. If it didn’t work, you would not weigh less. You should be proud of shedding that much weight.

I’ve been through the same thing. I’ve lost sixty pounds now. IT’s taken two and a half years. I don’t care that it’s taken a long time; I’m sure as shit better off for having lost it, and I’ve probably added more than three years onto my life. Damn, it took a lot of effort, and a lot of false starts. It took a lot fo self-education, self-control, and times when I desperately wanted to east like a maniac. There were times I fought little wars with myself driving home over whether or not I was going to stop at Wendy’s. It is HARD to lose weight when you have a lifetime’s habit of eating a lot and excerising little. Nobody’s saying it isn’t hard - nobody who isn’t a moron, anyway. But it’s doable. Eating less and exercising more works. Especially the eating less part.

This is more or less rehashing a post I made recently in GQ. As far as credentials go, I lost 135ish lbs in 2009-2010 and have mostly kept it off since then, including a pregnancy. I am working off some of the pregnancy weight, but I am still over 100 lbs down from my maximum. My BMI is technically overweight at the moment, but I’m “Texas normal”. So this isn’t defensive at all.

I’ve done the diet and exercise thing. I will agree that they work. But there are reasons that make it functionally impossible for a lot of people.

One, there is no comparison between needing to lose 20ish lbs and needing to lose 80+. Much of what works for 20ish lbs is useless or even counterproductive for people that need to lose serious weight. For example, my single greatest problem was that diet books and such kept recommending 1200-1500ish calories a day and that was just impossible for me. That was a 2000 calorie deficit. It was like trying to hold my head underwater and as impossible. I successfully lost weight when I restricted myself to 2000 calories, which was something I could live with and the weight fucking fell off. So don’t assume that your own experiences scale. There is a real difference.

Second, “diet and exercise” are not simple when you need to lose that much weight. You have to rebuild every aspect of your life, and it’s beyond complicated. The way we deal with the seven million choices we face in modern life is by relying on patterns, routines, systems. When you have an hour to kill, you don’t literally think of all the things you could do in that hour, you fall back on your standard 4-5 choices and pick one of them. When you look at what’s playing at the movies, you automatically dismiss 75% of what is on without thinking about it. Look at a menu and you only seriously think about 2-4 choices.

To lose serious weight, you have to redo every single one of those routines. It’s not just “eat less”. You have to find new things to eat that sate you, and you have to find new ways to schedule your life so that they are always available. You have to redefine your social life because if your morbidly obese, all your social patterns are probably unhealthy. You have to give up hobbies you love because they are unhealthy and because you need time for the new, healthy ones. Grocery shopping takes forever because you have to reconsider everything you buy. I can’t begin to tell you how many foundational assumptions about the kind of person I was and the kinds of things I did I had to overturn. You don’t know how many of these assumptions and patterns and routines you have until you try to overturn them.

The closest analogy is moving to a new city in a new state for a new job in a new career after a divorce. From scratch, you have to find places to live, shop, eat, relax. You have to figure out new local slang, new local gossip, new local politics, new local conventions. You are a different person in a lot of ways–people see you differently, treat you differently have different expectations. You have to find and define that new person and your new normal. However, unlike moving, when you are reworking your entire life to be healthy, you have to deal with the fact that you are surrounded by your old life and the expectations of yourself and everyone else that you will keep being the person you always were.

You also get virtually no help. I’ve never met a doctor or a nutritionist who knew any more than the average woman’s magazine about weight loss or nutrition or exercise, especially for a morbidly obese person. And in any case, you have to cobble together what works for you, because only you can figure out where the unhealthy patterns are and what is truly non-negotiable and what can be adjusted. It requires an intense amount of self-reflection and self-knowledge that a lot of people are not ready to do. The signal-to-noise ratio in the weight loss world is really, really bad and it takes a pretty keen intelligence and a lot of reading to begin to separate what is the useful information from the insane and dangerous bullshit.

I’m not saying it’s impossible to lose weight through diet and exercise. I’ve done it. But diet and exercise were impossible to do right for a long time before I figured out what needed to be done, and I think that’s really common. So while I can understand why it’s frustrating when someone says it’s “impossible”, I think you need to understand just how difficult it would be.