# I don't care anymore but I really want help. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 11, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551 "2010-01-11T20:08:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/41 "2010-01-12T17:45:21Z")
After participating and now co-leading an anxiety support group, I’m starting to realize just how common our thoughts really are. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/42 "2010-01-12T17:50:12Z")
If all else fails, there’s always law school. ;)😃 ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/43 "2010-01-12T17:54:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > If all else fails, there’s always law school. ;)😃 Heh. Dad has always discouraged me from going into law, and he’s been an attorney since 1973! His true love, I think, was photography. I guess my attitude runs in the family:p ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/44 "2010-01-12T17:58:15Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > Not been where you are, but it sounds like maybe you’re ready for a walkabout. > > Can you take a couple of months off? Go roaming, get away from it all for a while? Og, that sounds wonderful! I have given serious thought to taking a leave of absence from the program. According to what I’ve read in the doctoral program manual, we are allowed to do that under certain circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/45 "2010-01-12T18:23:57Z")
> [@statsman1982](#): > > **AHunter3** > > It just helps to let it out and hear other people’s ideas. To hear that others have felt/are feeling some of the things I am feeling is reassuring. A lot of the time, I think that my thoughts are unique to me, simply because I don’t often share them with others IRL. I went into graduate school with _damn few_ illusions… I was not expecting a supportive environment oriented around the love of ideas and thinking and quality of research, nor was I expecting supportive faculty for whom teaching was their primary calling. And I had been warned (well and often) that my own perspective was not going to be well-received in that discipline. And yet, nevertheless, when I took a full-time job (after all opportunities to be a paid teaching assistant or research assistant were exhausted, insufficient number of faculty were willing be on my dissertation committee and NONE would chair it, and I kind of needed to pay the rent and eat and stuff) and had something to do outside of that grey campusworld, I felt like I’d been reprieved from one of the nastier holding tanks outside of the 8th circle of inner hell. It’s pernicious, the myriad ways and forms in which the “must jump through hoops” aspects of being a PhD student can trash all of your various senses of self, self-esteem, pride in one’s abilities, confidence in one’s mental skillset, and general sense of being and doing what one ought be & do. From the time you are admitted as a _potential candidate_ for the doctorate (becoming a true candidate comes later, of course) until they are shaking your hand after your successful oral defense, you’re in one of those Erving Goffman “total institutions”. They control a massive part of where you can get relevant approval-strokes from. The workload cuts you off from other associations and from feedback of others with different perceptions. You knew that going in, of course, but it’s almost impossible not to underestimate what that does to one psychologically. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/46 "2010-01-12T18:31:35Z")
Exactly, **AHunter3**. Not to mention grad school pushes all your “am I smart enough” buttons, and most of us who are smart enough to go to grad school have placed a lot of our self-worth in being smart. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/47 "2010-01-12T19:33:06Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > After participating and now co-leading an anxiety support group, I’m starting to realize just how common our thoughts really are. 🙂 And you’re becoming overly concerned about it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/48 "2010-01-12T20:18:52Z")
Another ABD struggles-with-depression person checking in. Just because grad school makes you wish you didn’t exist anymore doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be in academia. At least, I don’t think it should. I don’t know anyone in grad school who isn’t beset with self-doubt, the research/teaching dilemma, and worthlessness. Really. I like to think that I’ll be able to power through it and come out the other side. I could ramble on, but I’ll spare you. If you ever want to talk to someone who is right where you are/(hopefully?) a year past where you are, PM me. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/49 "2010-01-14T16:04:48Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > It’s pernicious, the myriad ways and forms in which the “must jump through hoops” aspects of being a PhD student can trash all of your various senses of self, self-esteem, pride in one’s abilities, confidence in one’s mental skillset, and general sense of being and doing what one ought be & do. From the time you are admitted as a _potential candidate_ for the doctorate (becoming a true candidate comes later, of course) until they are shaking your hand after your successful oral defense, you’re in one of those Erving Goffman “total institutions”. They control a massive part of where you can get relevant approval-strokes from. The workload cuts you off from other associations and from feedback of others with different perceptions. > [@Brynda](#): > > Not to mention grad school pushes all your “am I smart enough” buttons, and most of us who are smart enough to go to grad school have placed a lot of our self-worth in being smart. > [@Helen's Eidolon](#): > > Just because grad school makes you wish you didn’t exist anymore doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be in academia. At least, I don’t think it should. I don’t know anyone in grad school who isn’t beset with self-doubt, the research/teaching dilemma, and worthlessness. Really. It’s making me feel a lot better to know I’m not the only one who ever felt that way. ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/50 "2010-01-14T16:21:13Z")
> [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](#): > > Another ABD struggles-with-depression person checking in. > > Just because grad school makes you wish you didn’t exist anymore doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be in academia. At least, I don’t think it should. I don’t know anyone in grad school who isn’t beset with self-doubt, the research/teaching dilemma, and worthlessness. Really. I like to think that I’ll be able to power through it and come out the other side. > > I could ramble on, but I’ll spare you. If you ever want to talk to someone who is right where you are/(hopefully?) a year past where you are, PM me. Thanks! When I get something coherent in my head, I’ll definitely take you up on it 🙂 To those who have suggested exercise: I was thinking a way to channel my desire to play video games and my need to get healthy into one activity would be to try Wii Fit. I have a Wii already, so I’d just need to get the kit. I usually get money for Christmas nowadays, so the cost isn’t an issue. Has anyone tried Wii Fit? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/51 "2010-01-14T18:54:15Z")
> [@niblet\_head](#): > > And you’re becoming overly concerned about it? 😉 Nope. 🙂 ETA: Dammit, why doesn’t my brain work as fast as my fingers? I also wanted to say that you can also combine video games with something like recumbent biking or treadmill walking - you don’t have to just sit there. Walking outside is my best suggestion, though - fresh air, sunshine, and exercise are three very good natural depression fighters. ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551/52 "2010-01-14T20:41:57Z")
> [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](#): > > Another ABD struggles-with-depression person checking in. > > Just because grad school makes you wish you didn’t exist anymore doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be in academia. At least, I don’t think it should. I don’t know anyone in grad school who isn’t beset with self-doubt, the research/teaching dilemma, and worthlessness. Really. I like to think that I’ll be able to power through it and come out the other side. > [@Brynda](#): > > Look, grad school is hard. If the internet had existed back then, I could have written the OP when I was working on my PhD. It is stressful, competitive, and it is hard to get emotional support. No one gets what you are going through except your fellow grad students, and I sure would hate to depend on a bunch of mathematicians for emotional support. I would be willing to bet that you are smarter than you think. All this garbage about feeling unprepared is exactly what I thought–and then I decided to switch fields while working on my dissertation (I didn’t, but I was so frightened that I really wanted to). I guess what I am trying to say is that some of this is just normal grad school crap, and that it will get better once you are out and working and see how competent you really are. Yep, grad school is hard. One of the first questions out of my psychiatrist’s mouth on the first day I consulted her: “Are you a grad student?” Yeah. Mind you, she was on staff at the university, but still… it seems that depression and all the other emotional crap are part and parcel of the grad school experience. Particularly, I would add, the Ph.D. experience. (Having done both the Master’s and Ph.D. I would say that the latter is much tougher on the psyche, but that’s JMO.) It goes with the territory. Honestly, they ought to just include a list of good therapists/psychiatrists in the grad school handbook when you show up that first semester! In my opinion, getting through the degree, dissertation, and TA classes is mostly about showing up (metaphorically, as well as literally getting your ass to class, or your butt in front of the computer). You don’t always feel it and you don’t always care – you just muddle through. The same for doing original research. Very few people make big breakthroughs. In my experience and from talking to colleagues, you never really feel like you totally _get_ all the literature out there. _Everyone_ seems smarter than you! But the reality is, you mostly just pick away at a tiny corner of your field, which you spend years working to understand, in order to have a tiny bit more insight into something. My tiny little insight – which ended up being the central argument of my dissertation – just came from working with the material, reading the literature, and picking away at it little by little every day for over a year before I had an “ah ha!” moment. That’s true of a lot of people. Just before my dissertation defense, one of the faculty (who was trying to cheer me up) noted that pretty much only me and maybe five other people on the planet know my very teeny, specialized area as well as I do. That helped keep it in perspective. Yeah, I feel like an idiot when I try to understand other academics in other specialties, but in my own… I’m an expert. Go figure! That pretty much floored me when I first realized it! For what it’s worth, I felt utterly unprepared for grad school in my field. My undergrad degree was in something completely different! And there were a number of times when I realized that classmates were discussing something for which I had no background. I just sucked it up and asked the obvious questions. After getting answers, I moved on. And got the damn degree in spite of it all. Having said all that, if you’re not finding it worthwhile, ditch. Find a job in industry. Teach community college. What others have said… The Ph.D. is way too much of a time investment to waste if you don’t really want to do something with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-anymore-but-i-really-want-help/524551.md?page=2)