# I don't care how Obama says the Pledge of Allegiance!! Or if he says it!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233 "2008-10-16T17:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/21 "2008-10-17T01:16:41Z")
> [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](#): > > Hand-on-heart is a civilian salute; just like a judge can cite you in contempt for not holding up your hand during swearing-in as a witness, anybody who refuses this gesture is just being conspicuous for the sake of it. So it is, in fact, not at all “just like” holding up your hand while being sworn in as witness, rather it’s quite a bit different from it. Got it. And I refuse the gesture because it’s not my flag. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/22 "2008-10-17T01:39:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > This is perhaps the best snark I have read this month. In your honor, I will direct my troops to carve your name into the flesh every third New Zealander they massacre next week. Some of my best friends are Kiwis! Bastard… ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/23 "2008-10-17T02:25:43Z")
I’m a traditionalist, let’s bring back the “[Bellamy](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Bellamy_salute_1.jpg) [salute](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute)” :eek: ! CMC +fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/24 "2008-10-17T02:39:24Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Yeah, hand over heart is for the Pledge of Allegiance. Those who do it for the national anthem are just a bit confused. It’s actually for both. From the Flag Code: b. Conduct during playing — During rendition of the national anthem— ``` 1. when the flag is displayed — A. all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart; B. men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and C. individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and 2. when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed. ``` ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/25 "2008-10-17T03:00:49Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I know. The only time I put my hand there is to check my heart rate isn’t going up too high whenever I’m buttfucking a nun. Lucky bastard… ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/26 "2008-10-17T03:02:03Z")
When was that established? More than likely most folks who do it at events do so because everyone else does. Went to school in the sixties. Was never taught that. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/27 "2008-10-17T03:27:11Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > When was that established? 1. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/28 "2008-10-17T03:31:22Z")
I’m from Massachusetts (one of the original 13 unlike all those square states) and we were not taught to put our hand over our hearts when saying the pledge. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/29 "2008-10-17T03:32:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > 1. There was a lot of that “hand saluting” going around back then. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/30 "2008-10-17T03:46:27Z")
Who the hell even says the Pledge of Allegiance, anyway? I don’t think I’ve said it since elementary school. I can’t remember if we said it in junior high. We definitely didn’t say it in high school. So that would make the last time I said it 1990.\* I must be one goddamned un-American terrorist. \*We’re learning numbers in my Farsi class and as I result I learned that the girl who usually sits next to me was born in 1990. _dies of old age_ ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/31 "2008-10-17T11:34:35Z")
> [@Lillith\_Fair](#): > > I had always kept my temper until this one day when I told her that if Sarah Palin ever becomes present “IT WILL BE YOUR FAULT!!!” She’s going to invoke Sarah Palin? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/32 "2008-10-17T12:11:44Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > She’s going to invoke Sarah Palin? Yeah, supposedly all you have to do is draw a pentagram on the ground and then wave a dead polar bear over it and _poof_ Palin appears in a puff of smoke. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/33 "2008-10-17T13:27:51Z")
Representative of the Rest of the World here: The hand-on-heart thing is weird to us. At best, it’s quaint and a bit over the top, and at worst, it’s creepy and insincere. For courts of law and the like, you may have to place your hand on a Bible (Actually even then, it’s voluntary as you can “affirm” instead if you like). For the rest of the formal civic duty-type stuff, standing to attention will suffice. Hand-on-the-heart to merely standing to attention is as a used car dealer’s or born again Christian’s double-handed handshake is to a regular single-handed one. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/34 "2008-10-17T13:51:35Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > Representative of the Rest of the World here: Congratulations! We must have missed that election. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/35 "2008-10-17T14:49:19Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > \*We’re learning numbers in my Farsi class and as I result I learned that the girl who usually sits next to me was born in 1990. [HIJACK]I see you’re in Ann Arbor. Are you taking Farsi at UM? I took Farsi there about a million years ago. Who’s teaching it now?[/HIJACK] ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/36 "2008-10-17T15:02:59Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > The hand-on-heart thing is weird to us. At best, it’s quaint and a bit over the top, and at worst, it’s creepy and insincere. Differnet countries just have different rules of etiquette when it comes to honoring the country and its symbols. I don’t think there’s anything deeper than that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/37 "2008-10-17T15:06:00Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Differnet countries just have different rules of etiquette when it comes to honoring the country and its symbols. I don’t think there’s anything deeper than that. Except that a significant number of Americans (or American talking heads) think it’s actually significant that Obama gives the shocker or whatever while reciting the pledge… ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/38 "2008-10-17T15:38:58Z")
> [@cwthree](#): > > [HIJACK]I see you’re in Ann Arbor. Are you taking Farsi at UM? I took Farsi there about a million years ago. Who’s teaching it now?[/HIJACK] Yup! My teacher is Behrad Aghaebi. I think he’s fairly new, though, as he’s always comparing Ann Arbor to Austin, where he used to work. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/39 "2008-10-17T16:35:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Except that a significant number of Americans (or American talking heads) think it’s actually significant that Obama gives the shocker or whatever while reciting the pledge… It is significant, because Obama is an American, and so by not doing that sort of thing, he’s violating American cultural norms, and if you were raised, like I and a lot of other Americans were, to believe that saluting the flag that way was a sign of respect that Americans are supposed to show to the United States and its flag, then by not doing it, he’s either expressing disrespect or showing that he’s ignorant of something he should have learned as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233/40 "2008-10-17T16:41:26Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It is significant, because Obama is an American, and so by not doing that sort of thing, he’s violating American cultural norms, and if you were raised, like I and a lot of other Americans were, to believe that saluting the flag that way was a sign of respect that Americans are supposed to show to the United States and its flag, then by not doing it, he’s either expressing disrespect or showing that he’s ignorant of something he should have learned as a kid. The majority of posts to this thread seem to indicate that it’s not a cultural norm at all, regardless of what the all-but-meaningless US Code says. He’s a United States Senator, and he’s running for President. I think that’s a pretty fair indication that he’s pretty respectful of his country… …which brings up back to the OP. He doesn’t put his hand on his heart. So fucking what? Do you really think America or its flag are somehow diminished by that? Jehovah’s Witnesses won’t say the pledge of allegiance at all. Does that mean they hate America? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-how-obama-says-the-pledge-of-allegiance-or-if-he-says-it/468233.md?page=3)