# I don't care if he's dead, I'm Pitting Nixon **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 15, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973 "2013-03-15T02:39:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/21 "2013-03-15T14:39:43Z")
Can we have a Cadaver Impeachment, along the lines of the Cadaver Synod? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/22 "2013-03-15T14:40:46Z")
> [@](#): > > What the Christ is the matter with the Jews, Bob? What is the matter with them? I suppose it is because most of them are psychiatrists. Nixon was a Scientologist? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/23 "2013-03-15T14:47:19Z")
There’s happy drunks, there’s quiet drunks … and there’s nasty drunks. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/24 "2013-03-15T14:59:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think the [Washington Post](http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2008-12-05/news/36876717_1_peace-talks-lbj-library-president-lyndon-b-johnson) explains things a little better: > > So, no actual new evidence, just insight into how LBJ reacted to the rumors at the time. Seems to be more the rumours. Here’s the [source](http://consortiumnews.com/2012/03/03/lbjs-x-file-on-nixons-treason/) of the OP’s article with links to alot of the original documents. They apparently had a Nixon aid on a wiretap asking the S. Vietnamese ambassador to delay on behalf of her “boss”. Some debate apparently whether “boss” meant Agnew or Nixon, but in any case, seems pretty clear the Nixon camp was trying to stop the talks, and Johnson was aware of it. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/25 "2013-03-15T15:06:18Z")
So, you’re saying that this Nixon character was up to no good? ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/26 "2013-03-15T15:13:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m trying to wrap my head around the idea that Nixon had committed treason in an effort to sway the election and LBJ was just too much of a nice guy to bring that to light. The Anna Chennault thing is old news to anyone who still cares about it. [HNN](http://hnn.us/articles/60446.html) does a better job at covering it than Washington Post. There are a couple competing theories as to why LBJ sat on it, but there’s no question that he did. I trust Robert Caro will get to the bottom of it and IMHO it’s a much more interesting question than anything to do with the JFK assassination. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/27 "2013-03-15T15:57:00Z")
Is this significantly different from Reagan’s dealings with the Iranians behind Carter’s back in 1980? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/28 "2013-03-15T16:00:24Z")
Yes. A hell of a lot more people died for it. Reagan’s move was ultimately just cynical, not truly evil. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/29 "2013-03-15T16:03:07Z")
Why? Power. An ace in the hole. If Nixon won, which was by no means certain, then he had something over the President. But only so long as he didn’t play the card, once it was out, he had no more control. It was cynics (So. Viet Nam regime) against the fanatics (NLF and N. Viet Nam). I remember a line told me by my cousin: “You’re about to meet some of the bravest, most dedicated and resourceful men you will ever meet. Trouble is, they are the enemy.” “Peace with honor” was a shuck, a beard. The NLF was never going to give up, ever. And the South Viet regime was ready to fight to the last American. No overt messaging was necessary, a wink, a shrug, a hint, all that was required. So Nixon could have it both ways, he could rely on the base Republican certainty that he was much more a warrior than Humphrey Dumphrey, and still restrain the anti-war sentiment with some bullshit about “peace with honor”. It worked, may the Goddess forgive us, it worked. We bought it. I’m thinking the file would be embarrassing, would be a problem, but not definitive, no fingerprints, no “smoking gub”. At worst, he’d have to toss Kissinger overboard. Which wouldn’t be nice, he most likely would have hesitated for about two seconds. Adios, smart-ass Jewboy! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/30 "2013-03-15T16:03:27Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Is this significantly different from Reagan’s dealings with the Iranians behind Carter’s back in 1980? It’s a similar incident, if it occurred. The linked article has some Nixon tapes where it is very clear that Nixon is worried about what the Johnson administration knew about doings of Nixon. Nowhere in the conversation does Nixon describe what was in the files he was looking for. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/31 "2013-03-15T18:48:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There’s happy drunks, there’s quiet drunks … and there’s nasty drunks. Never heard anyone call Nixon a drunk. Was he? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/32 "2013-03-15T18:49:40Z")
> [@drew870mitchell](#): > > The Anna Chennault thing is old news to anyone who still cares about it. [HNN](http://hnn.us/articles/60446.html) does a better job at covering it than Washington Post. > > There are a couple competing theories as to why LBJ sat on it, but there’s no question that he did. I trust Robert Caro will get to the bottom of it and IMHO it’s a much more interesting question than anything to do with the JFK assassination. LBJ had so much emotional and political investment in the war – perhaps he was actually ambivalent as to whether he wnated the Paris Peace Talks to succeed or not. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/33 "2013-03-15T18:53:04Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Is this significantly different from Reagan’s dealings with the Iranians behind Carter’s back in 1980? Covered in the same article, BTW; apparently the Iran-Contra scandal was a direct result of the [October Surprise.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise_conspiracy_theory) > [@](#): > > The “Big Question” that insiders were asking after the scandal broke in November 1986 was whether President Reagan knew about the decision by White House aide Oliver North and his boss, National Security Advisor John Poindexter, to divert some profits from secret arms sales to Iran to secretly buy weapons for the Nicaraguan Contra rebels. > > Once, Poindexter testified that he had no recollection of letting Reagan in on that secret – and with Reagan a beloved figure to many in Official Washington – the inquiry was relegated to insignificance. The remaining investigation focused on smaller questions, like misleading Congress and a scholarly dispute over whether the President’s foreign policy powers overrode Congress’ power to appropriate funds. > > At the start of the Iran-Contra investigation, Attorney General Edwin Meese had set the time parameters from 1984 to 1986, thus keeping outside of the frame the possibility of a much more serious scandal originating during Campaign 1980, i.e., whether Reagan’s campaign undermined President Jimmy Carter’s negotiations to free 52 American hostages in Iran and then paid off the Iranians by allowing Israel to ship weapons to Iran for the Iran-Iraq War. > > So, while congressional and federal investigators looked only at how the specific 1985-86 arms sales to Iran got started, there was no timely attention paid to evidence that the Reagan administration had quietly approved Israeli arms sales to Iran in 1981 and that those contacts went back to the days before Election 1980 when the hostage crisis destroyed Carter’s reelection hopes and ensured Reagan’s victory. > > The 52 hostages were not released until Reagan was sworn in on Jan. 20, 1981. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/34 "2013-03-15T18:55:06Z")
This part of the story cracks me up: > [@](#): > > Rostow labeled the file “The ‘X’ Envelope” and kept it in his possession, although having left government, he had no legal right to possess the highly classified documents, many of which were stamped “Top Secret.” Johnson had instructed Rostow to retain the papers as long as he, Johnson, was alive and then afterwards to decide what to do with them. [http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/shocking-new-evidence-reveals-depths-treason-and-treachery-watergate-and-iran?paging=off](http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/shocking-new-evidence-reveals-depths-treason-and-treachery-watergate-and-iran?paging=off) Here just deal with shit until I’m dead, and then do whatever. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/35 "2013-03-15T18:56:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Peace with honor” was a shuck, a beard. The NLF was never going to give up, ever. And the South Viet regime was ready to fight to the last American. No overt messaging was necessary, a wink, a shrug, a hint, all that was required. So Nixon could have it both ways, he could rely on the base Republican certainty that he was much more a warrior than Humphrey Dumphrey, and still restrain the anti-war sentiment with some bullshit about “peace with honor”. It worked, may the Goddess forgive us, it worked. We bought it. Worse, Nixon ran in 1968 on strongly implying (never outright promising) that he would end the war in his first term (that would be his **motive** for sabotaging the peace talks, to preserve the war as a live campaign-issue); but he kept it going until well into his second, at the cost of thousands more American lives and at least tens of thousands more Vietnamese lives. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/36 "2013-03-15T18:56:33Z")
Too soon! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/37 "2013-03-15T19:06:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Never heard anyone call Nixon a drunk. Was he? [Here, have a nice fat Google dump](https://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&q=richard+nixon+drunk&oq=richard+nixon+drunk&gs_l=hp.3..0j0i22i30.1529.5102.0.6287.19.12.0.4.4.1.1950.7146.1j4j2j1j0j1j0j1j2.12.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.6.psy-ab.83i70ZgcUTE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.43828540,d.dmg&fp=62ef4ccdaf8b45da&biw=877&bih=629). ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/38 "2013-03-15T19:09:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Never heard anyone call Nixon a drunk. Was he? Is this a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/39 "2013-03-15T19:12:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Never heard anyone call Nixon a drunk. Was he? Absolutely. He was a very heavy drinker. Google Nixon dunk and you’ll get a lot if hits, including claims he was at times too drunk to discuss critical foreign policy issues. [Here’s a recording of Nixon allegedly drunk talking to Bob Haldeman](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm5FIs9V0VA). He’s not falling down drunk and slurring every word, it’s a little more subtle than that, but he is clearly being affected by … something. ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973/40 "2013-03-15T19:20:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Never heard anyone call Nixon a drunk. Was he? Ignoring **ElvisL1ves** ’s snarky “LMGTFY” collection of blogs, IIRC, Nixon was a lightweight around alcohol. It’s conceivable that on a given night he may have had a few drinks at a function, been unable to handle himself, and an outsider saw it - thus begins the “Nixon is a drunk” stories. People want to attribute things like that to important men, especially an easy target like Nixon, when the truth is that most of the _personal_ slurs on Nixon are false. There’s a whole raft of goofy rumors about him, like one that he was in a gay love affair. If you hear something about him that disagrees with his image as an uptight square, take it with a huge grain of salt. I wish I could remember where I read the lightweight thing. While we’re dispelling Presidential rumors: LBJ’s dick was average. Definitely not the size that could browbeat visiting officials into submission. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-if-hes-dead-im-pitting-nixon/652973.md?page=3)