# I don't care what Ford would think of my car, why care what Adams would think of my government? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-what-ford-would-think-of-my-car-why-care-what-adams-would-think-of-my-government/503962 "2009-07-23T03:42:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-what-ford-would-think-of-my-car-why-care-what-adams-would-think-of-my-government/503962/61 "2009-07-26T17:51:22Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m a politically-minded US citizen and no, I don’t equate the ff to any gods. You missed my point. It’s simply a better analogy. Ford didn’t create the automobile. The founders created the United States and Jesus created Christianity. And they provided guidance on how to handle their creations. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-what-ford-would-think-of-my-car-why-care-what-adams-would-think-of-my-government/503962/62 "2009-07-26T17:55:05Z")
I’d argue (and I think I’d get support in this argument) that Paul created Christianity. And yes, I do think an analogy between Paul and the founders would be more apt for some people. But I wholly reject any sort of infallibility for the founders (or the political equivalent of sainthood). And I’m still a politically-minded US citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-what-ford-would-think-of-my-car-why-care-what-adams-would-think-of-my-government/503962/63 "2009-07-26T17:59:05Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > But I wholly reject any sort of infallibility for the founders I do to. And so would any reasonable person. In fact, who ever claimed infallibility for them? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-what-ford-would-think-of-my-car-why-care-what-adams-would-think-of-my-government/503962/64 "2009-07-26T23:01:42Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Probably the best source is a book, Akhil Amar’s _Reading the Constitution_. That’s where I’m getting my info and much of it is on google books. > > I’ll see if I can dig up some linkable articles or link you to the relevant pages in RtC. That’s be really handy. I’d like to read that. The simple fact is that this whole thing in the past is incredibly muddled. From the DoI to the Articles of Confederation (Article XIII is a headache) to the first constitution to the amendments. Oy. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-what-ford-would-think-of-my-car-why-care-what-adams-would-think-of-my-government/503962/65 "2009-07-26T23:14:23Z")
Well, the best I can do I think is to direct you to the google books [version](http://books.google.com/books?id=rtcWKmZU8E0C&dq=amar+reading+the+constitution&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=N-NsSv-AJYWKMp6vhfkG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4). Pages 1-15 are all about the ratification of the Constitution, and all available. 16-17 are relevant for this discussion, but sadly omitted. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-what-ford-would-think-of-my-car-why-care-what-adams-would-think-of-my-government/503962/66 "2009-07-27T00:04:16Z")
True democracy is a nightmare as far as I’m concerned. It sucks that it was almost exclusively white males who did what they did, but it shouldn’t be discounted _because_ they were white males. It has served us pretty damn well, and has self-corrected to include everybody else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-care-what-ford-would-think-of-my-car-why-care-what-adams-would-think-of-my-government/503962.md?page=3)