# I Don't Get and Am Sick of Trans-Stuff **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519 "2016-08-12T02:10:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/202 "2016-08-17T15:28:34Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > are you threatening me I’m afraid I’m going to start controlling everyone with the power of my mind. Sorry about that. I’m but a pawn of the vast trans lobby. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/203 "2016-08-17T15:35:47Z")
Eh, somebody had to take the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/204 "2016-08-17T20:46:12Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So calling someone ‘gay’ isn’t a slur? Generally speaking, no. It’s the primary term of self-identification by people who are sexually attracted to their own gender. It can be used as a slur, by people who think that there’s something morally wrong with being attracted to your own gender, but any label can be used that way. To a Klansman, “Jew” is an insult. > [@](#): > > If you are a member of a majority, then you are not allowed to be offended by anything, got it! :rolleyes: No, I’m afraid you’ve missed it completely. It’s got nothing to do with minority/majority status. **watchwolf** ’s complaint is dismissable because it’s _stupid_. Just like complaining that “niggardly” is racist is stupid. > [@](#): > > Can I similarly dismiss the claims of offense by a black guy who hates being called “black” and insists on being called “African American”? Well, there’s a distinction here that’s worth drawing. If someone says, “I don’t like being called black, I’d rather you called me African American,” then it would be rude to ignore his request. The same hold true for someone who doesn’t like being directly referred to as cisgender. On the other hand, if someone says, “I don’t like being called black, therefore, you cannot use the term at all, in reference to anyone,” then that guy’s just being an asshole, and you’re more than welcome to ignore him. So, since **watchwolf** doesn’t like being called “cisgender,” if I don’t want to be rude to him, I won’t call him that. But I’m not going to give up on the word altogether, just because he doesn’t like it. And given that the term “cisgender” applies to me as much as it does to him, I’m particularly not willing to cede authority to him to determine what labels I’m allowed to apply to myself. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/205 "2016-08-18T01:58:33Z")
Diana Nyad’s [commentary on NPR](http://www.npr.org/2016/08/17/490314013/transgender-athletes-raise-questions-for-future-olympic-games) yesterday was interesting. Her conclusion: > [@](#): > > Let’s look at this as would a statistician. A born male has a range of height, wider shoulders and so on than a born female. So if you were born with those male skeletal characteristics, traits that don’t change with hormonal shifts, and stand within any group of females, you have a likely chance of being bigger than average - an asset in most sports. I’m all for the rights of the transgender athlete. I’m ready to evolve from our binary model. But I admit, when it comes to the female trans athlete, I’m confused. Is this transphobic? Or a fair concern to raise? I lean toward the latter, but I’m curious to hear others’ thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/206 "2016-08-18T02:26:20Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Really? They were using eels to enforce prohibitions against homosexuality? Not exactly. Cicero objected to what he saw as tradition-threatening youth and foreign dandies who ate delicacies like eels fried in batter: > [@Cicero](#): > > O tempura! O morays! ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/207 "2016-08-18T04:58:03Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Is this transphobic? Or a fair concern to raise? I lean toward the latter, but I’m curious to hear others’ thoughts. It’s been addressed. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/208 "2016-08-18T07:37:22Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Diana Nyad’s [commentary on NPR](http://www.npr.org/2016/08/17/490314013/transgender-athletes-raise-questions-for-future-olympic-games) yesterday was interesting. Her conclusion: > > Is this transphobic? Or a fair concern to raise? I lean toward the latter, but I’m curious to hear others’ thoughts. Well, for starters, she seems to need reschooling in both biology and statistics. Males don’t have “wider shoulders” than females, they have a larger shoulder-to-hip ratio; also, those differences _are_ hormonal; also, while it is likely that someone who grew up with a male set of hormones will be taller than someone who grew up with a female set, it is not sure. I suspect that if I read the rest I’d come up with an equivalent amount of nits, and they’re big enough to warrant an upgrade to roaches. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/209 "2016-08-18T14:33:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, there’s a distinction here that’s worth drawing. If someone says, “I don’t like being called black, I’d rather you called me African American,” then it would be rude to ignore his request. The same hold true for someone who doesn’t like being directly referred to as cisgender. This response is troubling, because rather than you simply accepting his request to not be called cisgender, you had this to say: > [@Miller](#): > > The third misconception is that anybody gives a shit if your offended by “cisgender.” Not all offense is equally valid. Just as we can safely disregard a person who thinks “niggardly” is a racist term, we can also safely disregard people like yourself, who have decided to be offended by the term “cisgender,” for reasons that fall apart at the barest scrutiny. I can’t imagine you would say the following to someone who told you they were offended by being called “black” instead of “African American”: “The third misconception is that anybody gives a shit if your offended by “black.” Not all offense is equally valid. Just as we can safely disregard a person who thinks “niggardly” is a racist term, we can also safely disregard people like yourself, who have decided to be offended by the term “black,” for reasons that fall apart at the barest scrutiny” ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/210 "2016-08-18T14:46:05Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > It’s been addressed. I checked the thread to back before the NPR story came out, so no it has not been. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/211 "2016-08-18T15:12:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This response is troubling, because You’re missing the distinction **Miller** made between a personal preference about direct references, and objections to the term in general. If someone says to me that they don’t like to be referred to as “she,” I do my best to remember OK, don’t say she about that person, they don’t like it. If someone tells me the word “she” was made up by female language terrorists to insult them personally, and that I’m not allowed to pretend the word “she” carries any semiotic significance otherwise, I do my best to call them stupid on a message board. In the post you quoted, **Miller** was responding to the idea that “cisgender” as a label of a group is unacceptable and “in-” bloody “herently offensive.” It was about **wolfpup** ’s “individual right” to be offended about the existence of the term as it applies to anyone in any context. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/212 "2016-08-18T15:27:01Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > In the post you quoted, **Miller** was responding to the idea that “cisgender” as a label of a group is unacceptable and “in-” bloody “herently offensive.” It was about **wolfpup** ’s “individual right” to be offended about the existence of the term as it applies to anyone in any context. Sorry, but I don’t read it that way. I read it the same way Miller and others put it in another thread that discussed this issue. They don’t think the term is offensive, and chastise anyone who does. Even if some people, like myself, object to the term, they may not use it to describe me, but they still find my and others objection to the term something to be disregarded. Something that I do not think they would do to a person who was offended by being called “black” instead of “African American” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/213 "2016-08-18T15:34:45Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry, but I don’t read it that way. I read it the same way Miller and others put it in another thread that discussed this issue. They don’t think the term is offensive, and chastise anyone who does. Even if some people, like myself, object to the term, they may not use it to describe me, but they still find my and others objection to the term something to be disregarded. Something that I do not think they would do to a person who was offended by being called “black” instead of “African American” Are you arguing that if I knew someone objected to being called black I would stop using the term black for everyone? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/214 "2016-08-18T15:43:42Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Are you arguing that if I knew someone objected to being called black I would stop using the term black for everyone? No I am not arguing that. I am arguing that you wouldn’t consider their offense at the word “black” baseless and stupid. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/215 "2016-08-18T15:45:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No I am not arguing that. I am arguing that you wouldn’t consider their offense at the word “black” baseless and stupid. Depends on their argument. If they say “It’s insulting because it starts with ‘bla’ which sounds like ‘blah’ and I don’t want to be blah!” I’d laugh. A lot. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/216 "2016-08-18T15:50:17Z")
Well, yeah. Some things are dumber than others. There’s not really any way around that. And for fuck’s sake, what a world we live in where this doesn’t go without saying, but: people described as “black” used to be considered farm animals and treated with the level of courtesy and affection traditionally accompanying that status, because they were black. People described as cisgender, I _think_, have not. There may be other differences, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/217 "2016-08-18T15:51:58Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Depends on their argument. If they say “It’s insulting because it starts with ‘bla’ which sounds like ‘blah’ and I don’t want to be blah!” I’d laugh. A lot. I find this scenario unlikely. I also find it unlikely that you would ask a black man WHY being called ‘black’ offended him before you decided if his offense was baseless or stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/218 "2016-08-18T15:55:58Z")
That is because there are obvious reasons that come to mind which are not baseless and stupid. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/219 "2016-08-18T15:57:06Z")
“You can’t call me black. You can just say ‘non-white.’ They are opposites! Don’t ask me about mixed races. Don’t you know what ‘opposites’ means?” “I’ve heard people on the internet use ‘black’ as a pejorative, therefore I’m offended by its use.” “It’s just an ugly word and it sounds like you’re calling me girly.” “Can’t you just call me tall?” “I don’t believe in labels! But if you insist, you can just say I’m ‘normal.’” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/220 "2016-08-18T16:00:06Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I find this scenario unlikely. I also find it unlikely that you would ask a black man WHY being called ‘black’ offended him before you decided if his offense was baseless or stupid. You think I’d just decide that it was baseless or stupid without asking? Or you think I’d just decide that it was offensive because he claimed it? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/221 "2016-08-18T16:22:02Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I checked the thread to back before the NPR story came out, so no it has not been. It hasn’t been adressed in the thread, but it has been adressed by sports committees, both situations of gender reassignment and intersex ones, for decades. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519.md?page=12)