# I Don't Get and Am Sick of Trans-Stuff **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519 "2016-08-12T02:10:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/242 "2016-08-18T19:51:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Good thing I don’t use “typical” as a prefix then, isn’t it? > > Why the hang up on prefixes? Why not suffixes? Gender-typical - Representing the typical match up between biological sex and gender identity. Seems pretty easy to me. That’s not easy at all. Most trans people have “typical” genders – “gender typical” (male or female) would seem to include them. If you don’t like prefixes, then how about as a suffix? Is “gendercis” okay with you? If not, how about “gendersas”? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/243 "2016-08-18T20:02:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s not easy at all. Most trans people have “typical” genders – “gender typical” (male or female) would seem to include them. > > If you don’t like prefixes, then how about as a suffix? Is “gendercis” okay with you? If not, how about “gendersas”? How about gender-typical? “Representing the state where biological sex matches gender identity” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/244 "2016-08-18T20:03:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How about gender-typical? “Representing the state where biological sex matches gender identity” But most trans people have typical genders! Why on earth would they be excluded from being “gender-typical”? Why not choose something that wouldn’t be so confusing? It’d be like calling straight people “sex-typical” – that’d be incredibly confusing, since most straight and gay people have “typical” sexes (as well as “typical” sexual activity). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/245 "2016-08-18T20:05:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But most trans people have typical genders! Why on earth would they be excluded from being “gender-typical”? Why not choose something that wouldn’t be so confusing? transgender people have a biological sex that matches their gender identity? If not, then no, they wouldn’t be gender-typical. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/246 "2016-08-18T20:07:22Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > transgender people have a biological sex that matches their gender identity? If not, then no, they wouldn’t be gender-typical. Most trans people are male or female. That’s their gender. And those are “typical” genders. Most trans people have typical genders. Having a typical gender shouldn’t be different than being “gender-typical”, unless you want to cause confusion. It makes no sense to use a phrase that is so confusing when it’s not necessary. It makes no sense that having a typical gender would be different than being gender-typical. Why not pick something that isn’t so confusing? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/247 "2016-08-18T20:25:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Most trans people are male or female. That’s their gender. And those are “typical” genders. Most trans people have typical genders. Having a typical gender shouldn’t be different than being “gender-typical”, unless you want to cause confusion. > > It makes no sense to use a phrase that is so confusing when it’s not necessary. It makes no sense that having a typical gender would be different than being gender-typical. Why not pick something that isn’t so confusing? Yeah, like stereotypical. Why’s that so confusing? Doesn’t have anything to do with stereos, and it’s not like everyone would have the SAME type of stereo. And inflammable? What’s the deal with that? Can it burn or not? So confusing! And “marriage” Used to be between ‘a man and a woman’. Now it’s between ‘two people’? Why did that have to change? So confusing! And ‘polish’? don’t get me started! Capitalize the first letter, the pronunciation changes? WTH? so confusing! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/248 "2016-08-18T20:32:58Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, like stereotypical. Why’s that so confusing? Doesn’t have anything to do with stereos, and it’s not like everyone would have the SAME type of stereo. > > And inflammable? What’s the deal with that? Can it burn or not? So confusing! > > And “marriage” Used to be between ‘a man and a woman’. Now it’s between ‘two people’? Why did that have to change? So confusing! > > And ‘polish’? don’t get me started! Capitalize the first letter, the pronunciation changes? WTH? so confusing! > > :rolleyes: There’s already a totally non confusing term. I get that you don’t like it. But there are plenty of non confusing alternatives. Good luck trying to get a confusing phrase to catch on when there are non confusing alternatives. I’ve presented several alternatives. What’s wrong with the ones I suggested? They’re shorter, too! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/249 "2016-08-18T20:39:25Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Good thing I don’t use “typical” as a prefix then, isn’t it? > > Why the hang up on prefixes? Why not suffixes? Gender-typical - Representing the typical match up between biological sex and gender identity. Seems pretty easy to me. You can use it. I won’t stop you, and I doubt anyone else will, either. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/250 "2016-08-18T20:42:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s already a totally non confusing term. I get that you don’t like it. But there are plenty of non confusing alternatives. > > Good luck trying to get a confusing phrase to catch on when there are non confusing alternatives. > > I’ve presented several alternatives. What’s wrong with the ones I suggested? They’re shorter, too! Know what’s even shorter? Having no word. Have no word that is necessary to describe someone whose sex matches gender. That’s the typical way everyone is. People who are NOT that are transgender or whatever. Why is one for the way humans typically are necessary anyway? Just to have a label for EVERYONE? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/251 "2016-08-18T20:46:29Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Know what’s even shorter? Having no word. Have no word that is necessary to describe someone whose sex matches gender. That’s the typical way everyone is. People who are NOT that are transgender or whatever. Why is one for the way humans typically are necessary anyway? Just to have a label for EVERYONE? So you don’t think it’s necessary to have a word for straight, or heterosexual? I find those words quite useful. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/252 "2016-08-18T20:48:41Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > I understand that dividing between “normal” and “abnormal” might be seen as stigmatizing, and therefore transsexuals would like a more neutral-sounding term to describe people whose brains and genitals match in gender. But to many, many people, even those who fully support the rights of transgendered people to not be discriminated against, there’s something that rubs them wrong about needing to invent a new term for the condition that they think of as simply the default state of a human being. This might be seen as stigmatizing, but why can’t we just call you abnormal? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/253 "2016-08-18T20:53:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Sure, because it is. I’m not sure what your problem is, here. Some terms are inherently offensive. Some terms are not. Whether or not a term is inherently offensive is not determined by one person saying it’s so. Sidebar: some terms are only offensive depending upon the geographic location. Having just returned from my second trip to Thailand, where I dealt with or encountered kathoey working at an engineering firm, in a shopping mall, and in the streets and sex clubs, “ladyboy” in Thailand, does not appear to be offensive in any context I have encountered. This is actually rather difficult for me to accommodate myself to, because IME in the US it almost always is very offensive. So I still refused to use the word, and preferred to use the Thai “kathoey” instead. Which of course translates from Thai into “ladyboy,” so I’m not really making it better for anyone but myself. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/254 "2016-08-18T20:57:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > This might be seen as stigmatizing, but why can’t we just call you abnormal? I’m left-handed, and that’s about as picayune a minority as you can be, and I’d STILL be a bit pissed if people described handedness as “normal” and “abnormal.” And I’m sure **cmkeller** can think of a different minority s/he belongs to whose description as “abnormal” would be irritating as shit. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/255 "2016-08-18T20:58:34Z")
jsgoddess: > [@](#): > > This might be seen as stigmatizing, but why can’t we just call you abnormal? Obviously, you can call anyone anything. But isn’t it reasonable to say that a person whose body and brain are in harmony, who needs no sort of therapy or surgery to achieve such a state, is “normal” and one who requires medical intervention is not? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/256 "2016-08-18T21:02:22Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > jsgoddess: > > Obviously, you can call anyone anything. But isn’t it reasonable to say that a person whose body and brain are in harmony, who needs no sort of therapy or surgery to achieve such a state, is “normal” and one who requires medical intervention is not? Sure it’s reasonable, if you want to be stigmatizing. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/257 "2016-08-18T21:09:13Z")
In my long years of participating in these sorts of debates, online and increasingly IRL, I find that 100% of the time those who plant their feet against the word “cisgender” are in fact not supportive of either transgender persons as individuals or the community as a whole. Given the diversity of humanity, there will be \*some \*cases where a person who fights the good fight to abolish the word “cisgender” is also an ally who helps, works with, is friendly to, or otherwise materially or substantively supportive to transgender persons. In other words, a person who is honestly bothered by the systemic and systematic discrimination we face, about our abominable unemployment and underemployment rates, lack of access to health care for transition, scarily high depression and suicide rate among unsupported individuals, and the violence, sexual assault, and murder of us. I suppose it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/258 "2016-08-18T21:23:17Z")
I’m cisgender and I feel wholly comfortable with the word. I won’t use it for people who have said they don’t like it, but one or two internet people aren’t enough to indicate to me that it’s a slur for a group that I’m a member of. It’d be different of it was a group I wasn’t a part of - but since I’m cis, my opinion on the word cis is just as valuable as any other cis person. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/259 "2016-08-18T21:43:06Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > I think the problem is that a lot of people don’t like the fact that people whose brain-genders match their genital-genders aren’t simply called “normal.” > > I understand that dividing between “normal” and “abnormal” might be seen as stigmatizing, and therefore transsexuals would like a more neutral-sounding term to describe people whose brains and genitals match in gender. But to many, many people, even those who fully support the rights of transgendered people to not be discriminated against, there’s something that rubs them wrong about needing to invent a new term for the condition that they think of as simply the default state of a human being. That doesn’t make sense to me. If they support them, why would they use a stigmatizing word as “abnormal”? If they are against trans discrimination, why would they actively engage in a form of discrimination, calling trans people a word that has a history of being used to say that there’s something wrong with them? I mean, it’s in the definition: “deviating from what is normal or usual, typically in a way that is undesirable or worrying.” I don’t get why that’s even a response to the question. FP asked about “heterosexual.” A word created to describe what people used to just call “normal.” Yet the anti-cis crowd doesn’t object to that term. Nor do they mind saying they are “straight.” Plus it’s just inevitable. If a difference is observed, there will be a term made both for the less common and the more common variation, if one does not exist. Let’s say that it’s discovered that some things actually travel backwards in time. Such items are called “backtravelers.” Not long after, the word “fronttravelers” (using a prefix that is the opposite) will be created, and it will describe what we previously thought of as “normal.” The objection you described is just an objection to how words work. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/260 "2016-08-18T22:26:27Z")
BigT: > [@](#): > > That doesn’t make sense to me. If they support them, why would they use a stigmatizing word as “abnormal”? They wouldn’t. But they would use “normal” to describe what is now called “cisgender” and “transgender” to describe one who is transgender. Of course, the _implication_ of calling one group “normal” is to label the other group “abnormal”, but they wouldn’t use that word specifically. They’d say, “This person is a normal woman” and “This person is a transgender woman” without meaning to be insulting. > [@](#): > > I don’t get why that’s even a response to the question. FP asked about “heterosexual.” A word created to describe what people used to just call “normal.” Yet the anti-cis crowd doesn’t object to that term. Nor do they mind saying they are “straight.” I’m sure that in less sexually tolerant climates this is true as well. Once upon a time, homosexuality was clinically considered a mental illness, and I’m sure many heterosexuals would have been taken aback by the “new term” to describe what was simply “normalcy” to them. > [@](#): > > Plus it’s just inevitable. If a difference is observed, there will be a term made both for the less common and the more common variation, if one does not exist. Let’s say that it’s discovered that some things actually travel backwards in time. Such items are called “backtravelers.” Not long after, the word “fronttravelers” (using a prefix that is the opposite) will be created, and it will describe what we previously thought of as “normal.” OK, but let’s suppose that “backtravelers” have all sorts of issues with their back-traveling existence and would happily pay for some sort of surgery to turn them into “foretravelers.” Does that not suggest that the condition of “foretraveling” is the normal state of travel, to be desired above the other state? > [@](#): > > The objection you described is just an objection to how words work. Perhaps, but I think it is the reason that a lot of cisgendered folks don’t like the “cisgender” label, even those who have no animus against the transgendered. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/261 "2016-08-18T22:48:21Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Does that not suggest that the condition of “foretraveling” is the normal state of travel, to be desired above the other state? Oopsie! You bigoted out loud! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519.md?page=14)