# I Don't Get and Am Sick of Trans-Stuff **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519 "2016-08-12T02:10:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/81 "2016-08-13T13:23:45Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > In my entire life, the number of transgender people I’ve met can be counted on one hand. That you know of. > [@](#): > > I’ve only ever encountered “cisgender” outside the SDMB as an insulting or derogatory term. I further understand this is not a popular or approved opinion, but too bad. That’s my experience and I’m getting just a bit tired of people telling me it’s invalid because of reasons. Well, that’s your experience. It doesn’t make that the only valid experience, or indeed the normal experience. There are many factors that could be in play that cause you to hear the term only in an insulting or derogatory way. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/82 "2016-08-13T13:26:35Z")
The fight for rights don’t stop just because you’re sick of it, it stops when the work is fully done and its not fully done. Until you can imagine writing a similar rant for straight, cis people, then its not done and you’re just going to have to live with this fight for the rest of your life ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/83 "2016-08-13T13:28:58Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > And yeah, I kind of do agree that it’s a bit of an awkward sounding prefix, and I wish whoever coined it had come up with a better one… but I still think it’s useful to have one. The prefix comes from the Latin, so you can blame the Romans for that. It’s been used in the scientific world (e.g. [cis–trans isomerism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis%E2%80%93trans_isomerism)) for a long time without complaint. The first person to use “cis” in contrast with “trans” in the context of gender identity seems to have been [German sexologist Volkmar Sigusch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender#Etymology_and_terminology). In his 1998 (English-language) essay “The Neosexual Revolution” he wrote “For if there is a _trans_‚ a beyond (physical gender)‚ there must be a _cis_‚ a this-side-of‚ as well.” According to Google Translate, in Sigusch’s native language “this side gender” would literally be something like “diese Seite Geschlecht”, which doesn’t really roll off the English-speaking tongue. So we should all probably be thankful he went with Latin instead. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/84 "2016-08-13T15:39:56Z")
The OP’s ire (will he ever return to this thread?) is completely misplaced. Trans folks are all the rage, and it’s the media that is “forcing” him to confront the issue on a daily basis. But he should keep in mind that the media played a huge role in societal acceptance of gay people, so whether you like it or not, media exposure is good for trans folks as well. Is it too much for us non-trans people to put up with a little overexposure (if it’s even that) to help their cause? If you must bitch, bitch at the media. Just know that you’re not helping those very folks by insisting you not have to deal with them. And I don’t know if the OP lives in the US or not, but the struggle is far from over. As already noted in this thread there are lots of states with trans-unfriendly laws on the books. As for not “getting it”, well BFD!! I don’t “get” being a woman at all, but so what? I’m not a woman, so why would I even expect to fully get it. Same with gay or trans folks. I don’t really “get” it, but it’s none of my fucking business anyway, especially when the weight of science comes down in favor of this not being simply a lifestyle choice. One might as well not “get” Global Warming because you live in area that had a shitload of snow last winter. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/85 "2016-08-13T16:33:00Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > The fight for rights don’t stop just because you’re sick of it, it stops when the work is fully done and its not fully done. Until you can imagine writing a similar rant for straight, cis people, then its not done and you’re just going to have to live with this fight for the rest of your life Perhaps that fatigue in the general population is necessary. 'Fine! Let \ have \. I do not care enough, let me move on with my life." If there is a risk, it’s that those people committed to raising awareness over decades might eventually be considered fringe loons (like PETA). But that’s their problem. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/86 "2016-08-13T16:33:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I think the term you’re looking for there is “genderqueer”, a term that is FAR more loaded with potential offense than either transgender or cisgender. Definition is usually some variant on “denoting or relating to a person who does not subscribe to conventional gender distinctions but identifies with neither, both, or a combination of male and female genders.” What’s the difference between “genderqueer” and androgynous? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/87 "2016-08-13T20:25:46Z")
> [@Memnon](#): > > FWIW, I don’t like it either. It rhymes with piss, sounds like Sissy, and is basically an ugly sounding word. It just hits the ear wrong, somehow. Tinny, horrible word! ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/88 "2016-08-13T21:24:35Z")
For obvious reasons I can’t reply to everyone. I apologize to those that don’t get a response. **Tom…** I’ve always thought you were a fucknut but I’ve never had reason to engage you. Now I do. You, good sir, are a pitiable fuckwidget. Your past actions are my cite. > [@tomndebb](#): > > I’d add it to the list of things you do not understand, but the list is maxed out at the current 1,048,576 rows that Excel can handle. You pretentious fucking cling-on. You’ve no idea what I do and don’t understand and accusing me of stupidity based on my post is beneath most people other than you. From you it is par for the course. Listen Gidget. I was born in the body that my brain accepts. I cannot get a brain and body in disagreement. I also don’t get being a black dude in copland. This isn’t willful ignorance it is literal incapacity. Eat a dick - or a few. Or choke on a bag of them. I don’t much care. Fucknut. > [@](#): > > Big deal. The reason you hate the term is probably among the things that we cannot fit on the list of things you can’t understand. > It’s just a prefix. It is not an insult. You are willing to use trans as a prefix, so your objection to cis will not make any sense, anyway. No, I object to “cis” because it annoys me to be labelled in order to separate myself from people that, to my understanding, would rather not be segregated. I use “trans” because, to the best of my knowledge, that is the preferred term. If I’m wrong then I apologize to those to whom I applied the term. I’m happy to amend my phraseology. You are still about as useful as tits on fish. > [@](#): > > The media “latched onto it” when a small number of local communities tried to deal with the issue, quietly, only to have the Far Right and their media (Faux News) play it up as a big deal. You can’t even get who to hate right. I am responding specifically to this line, “You can’t even get who to hate right.” Fuck you you half-bright full-prick. I don’t hate any group - particularly groups that have to suffer for being what they are. Eat my ass you picayune motherfucker. Accuse me of hatred you self-righteous bit of sidewalk-sputum. Learn to fucking read and then re-read the OP - perhaps have mommy explain the words to you. Fucking slobber-monkey. > [@](#): > > Has anyone asked you to take hormone therapy or surgery? I thought not. You can easily be left alone by not posting spittle strewn hate threads on the internet. > > Sucks to be you. Do you want a hug? > > And your point? Nope. I’ve never been asked to take hormones. Have you? Are you trans? No, you’re not. You are a crusader defending the ones you feel are attacked because you feel it is the “cis-man’s duty” to leap in on their side. You are a fucking shadow dude. You are a list of issues you will dive into to prove your tolerance. Well done you fucking baby. Nutless defender of those who can speak for themselves - except that YOU think they need YOU to defend them because YOU need to feel like YOU are worthwhile. Get bend you fucking lugnut. And here you fucking go \<\<\\>\> > [@](#): > > I would guess the repeal of laws such as the nonsense passed in North Carolina and that idiots like Indiana’s Pence would stop loudly proclaiming slander against them. You have a problem with that? > > So, don’t listen when it comes up. No need to whine about it, here. Learn to read and then get back to me. And since YOU brought Yankmerican politics into it - sucks to be you for living in a country like Yankmerica. My country is civilized - as am I - get a passport, move to decency and shut the fuck up. What have YOU done to fix the problem? Specifics now Spartacus. I’ll put my deeds against yours ya fucking keystroke gladiator and see who stacks up better. Fuck sakes. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/89 "2016-08-13T21:32:08Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > The fight for rights don’t stop just because you’re sick of it, it stops when the work is fully done and its not fully done. Until you can imagine writing a similar rant for straight, cis people, then its not done and you’re just going to have to live with this fight for the rest of your life Agreed…and…it’s worse than that, because the work is never fully done. There are still overt racists and sexists in the U.S. There are still people who can say, with a straight face, that blacks and women should not be permitted to vote. Anti-gay and anti-trans sentiment will never go away entirely. We can never “win” the way we won WWII. It’s a never-ending game of Whack-a-Mole, as evil pops its head up and chatters, and we have to clobber it. Again and again. (It’s kinda Orwellian.) ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/90 "2016-08-13T22:27:35Z")
For the OP, do you react so strenuously when you hear about sexism, racism, or homophobia? Are you fucking sick and tired of hearing about that? Those battles have been waging a lot longer, in the open, than the trans- issue. So, my lord, you must be sick and fucking tired of hearing about it! After all, you don’t “get” being black in copland, I believe you said, so god, why won’t they shut up about it, right? Or Roger Ailes, god, why can’t they stop talking about sexual harassment! the battle is won, protections are in place! ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/91 "2016-08-13T22:40:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You’re confusing the word itself with the act of marking the trait of cisgenderism as a specific condition. Calling it “non-transgendered” goes back to setting it as an invisible default condition without any particular characteristics: it defines it by the absence of characteristics. > > It’s helpful for folks in the majority to see that their presence in the majority along particular axes has characteristics. I don’t much care what the word is that’s used to define folks whose gender identity matches their birth-assigned gender, but having a word for that is a good thing. It’s also a thing that’s probably going to make a lot of cis folks uncomfortable, and it’s that discomfort that I consider a good thing as well. We’ll just have to disagree, as I regard the word as having the opposite effect – that it is unnecessarily factious and it not only _ **emphasizes** _ the divide between the majority default condition and the transgendered, but its ugliness implies – probably unintentionally – a hostility to that majority condition. I was going to include this quote from the first link in my earlier post but I forgot, and it is very fitting to include it here: “For me, ‘cis’ reifies something that is mostly a fiction,” University of Southern California gender studies professor Chris Freeman, Ph.D. (pictured, left) tells The Advocate. “It creates — or re-creates — a gender binary, which is exactly what many scholars and activists have been fighting against for decades.” “To me, ‘cisgender’ is a clunky, unhelpful, and maybe even regressive term,” Freeman concludes. “It does not move the gender conversation forward in a constructive way. Or in a productive way.” > **[The True Meaning of the Word 'Cisgender'](https://www.advocate.com/transgender/2015/07/31/true-meaning-word-cisgender)** > > It's not complicated: Cisgender is the opposite of transgender. > [@Miller](#): > > Yeah, that’s not actually how that worked. Around the 18th century, the word “gay” started to take on connotations of immorality, specifically sexual immorality. It meant, essentially, “slut,” except it was reserved for men, and in particular, men who frequented a lot of prostitutes. Over the next century or so, it gradually mutated to mean, “Men who have sex with other men,” but was still very much intended as a slur. While it was eventually embraced as a term of self-identity, it was one choice from a variety of externally-imposed, condemnatory labels. The only reason it doesn’t have any negative connotations _to you_ is because you were born in the latter half of the 20th century, well after the term had shed almost all of it’s negative connotations outside of sexual orientation. At the time it was adopted as a self-descriptor by the gay community, that was absolutely not the case. > [@tomndebb](#): > > Actually, nineteenth century use of gay more often applied to the female prostitutes, rather than the men who used them. > Otherwise, you have it right. People who think that homosexuals co-opted the word gay in the 1960s or 1970s were just too sheltered (_i.e._, ignorant–_e.g._, Anita Bryant, Tom Snyder), to realize where the word actually arose. Some of the early history of the word I admit I wasn’t aware of, and your descriptions seem to agree with various sources I’ve looked at. However the usage appears to have been limited to specific subcultures and not used that way broadly, the point being that in mainstream use “gay” still meant “happy” and “carefree” until relatively recently. Indeed I’m old enough to remember the word being used that way, though it may have been in writings that were a decade or two behind the times. The fact that many in the mainstream weren’t aware of a different usage in niche subcultures doesn’t make them either “sheltered” or “ignorant” in any meaningful sense of those terms; as any linguist will tell you and language descriptivists will enthusiastically endorse, what a word means is what the vast majority of its users think it means. It’s this shift in mainstream usage that occurred fairly recently, and I tend to concur that it was around the sixties: The term [gay] was originally used to mean “carefree”, “happy”, or “bright and showy” … **The sixties marked the transition in the predominant meaning of the word** gay from that of “carefree” to the current “homosexual”. [_My note:_ other sources place the origin earlier, around the mid-50s.] > **[Gay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Shift_to_homosexual)** > > Gay is a term that primarily refers to a homosexual person or the trait of being homosexual. The term originally meant 'carefree', 'cheerful', or 'bright and showy'. > While scant usage referring to male homosexuality dates to the late 19th century, that meaning became increasingly common by the mid-20th century. In modern English, gay has come to be used as an adjective, and as a noun, referring to the community, practices and cultures associated with homosexuality. In the 1960s, gay became t... > [@Miller](#): > > None of those cites disprove or even disagree with what **Jimmy Chitwood** said. Yeah, “cisgender” is the opposite of “transgender.” That’s not even remotely the same as saying “cisgender” means “non-transgender.” Or are you of the opinion that, because black and white are opposites, everything that is not black must therefore be white? No, I’m of the opinion that “black” and “white” are not linguistic opposites, they are simply descriptors that happen to represent the darkest possible and the lightest possible perceived brightness, or more accurately, the absence of color and the equal mix of all visible colors. If they truly were linguistic opposites, then non-white would mean black by definition. Sometimes negating an opposite might lose or change nuance of meaning, but since “transgendered” is _ **defined as** _ a specific condition and “cisgendered” is _ **defined as precisely the absence of that condition** _, there is no nuance whatsoever to be lost. This is not a psychological or medical issue, it is a straightforward matter of language. Since I’ve shown three different sources that say that “cisgendered” means “not transgendered”, I think it’s fair to conclude that that’s just what it means – i.e.- non-transgendered. Much like **Jimmy Chitwood** ’s claim has now been shown to be the opposite of “right”, which with equal lack of ambiguity we can label “wrong”. It’s utterly irrelevant that there are other specific types of gender situations; if someone wants to talk about some specific situation like androgyny, they are free to name it and do so. Indeed it is the creation of a stupid term like “cisgendered” that reinforces the prejudicial notion of strict gender binaries, as noted above. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/92 "2016-08-13T22:48:26Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What harm is done by those wishing to mitigate stigma, marginalization, and abuse of those apparently born with something that is harmless? None whatsoever. As I said I fully support trans-rights. I think trans-folk ought to be treated with the same dignity and respect as anyone else. I don’t believe in giving people rights. I believe that people have rights and it is the height of idiocy to pretend that we grant or recognize those rights. Who has the right to afford rights? No one. We all have the same rights and violation of those rights - whatever they may be - is an affront to our basic humanity. > [@Ambivalid](#): > > Um, I think you should focus more on this and put your trans-phobia on the back buner for now. Choke on a piece of shit you fucking mo-tard. Accuse me of “trans-phobia”. I’m not in the least. Check your fucking attitude and come back. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If you support the idea that trans people are entitled to equal rights then you have to acknowledge that public awareness is what leads to those equal rights. The same thing was true with black people and women and gay people - they had to make themselves loud and in people’s faces in order for their problems to get heard. Yes, I agree with you with a but… But the fight has been won. If a trans-person gets hassled they get lots of coverage and overwhelming support. Trans-issues are getting coverage because of the freak-show factor. trans-people comprise what a fraction of a percent of the population but they get a disproportionate amount of coverage because they are “oddities” and t gives the left and the right a chance to feel good about themselves as the non-involved - I’m looking at you **Tom…** - fall all over themselves to align themselves. > [@ruadh](#): > > OK, so this being the case - imagine that for your entire life, society has been telling you you’re the \*opposite \*gender. That’s what it means to be trans. I would suggest that you try a census of the people who “society” has told them to be something they aren’t. Truth is that the majority of suicides have nothing to do with gender identity. The majority of beatings and murders have nothing to do with it. Do trans-people get beaten and killed for being trans? Yes. Is this bare minority of people who are beaten and / or killed in hate crimes? Yes. > [@](#): > > I would guess “not being attacked and killed for being trans” would be pretty high on the list. I’ll ask you to check the murder / suicide rates for kids that don’t fit in or fuck up on the internet and get back to me. I’ll bet that cyberbullying (non-trans related) and real bullying take more lives - directly and indirectly - than trans-hatred. > [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > OK, this is an honest, non-snarky question, because I’ve seen other people say this on the Internet, and I truly don’t understand the nature of their objection to the term, and I would like to understand it. Are you similarly bothered by the existence of the term “heterosexual” (or to other terms that describe a more-common-than-not default state for humanity, like, I dunno, “civilian”?) If so, why; if not, what is the specific nature of your problem with “cisgender”? You make a very good point and I’ll have to think about that. Off the top of my head I suppose that it comes down to not needing a label. I am - among other things - a depressive. I do not refer to people that are not depressive as anything other than people. I am depressive; there is the distinction. If I say “depressives” that, by definition, explains that I am talking about those with depression. Anyone not covered by “depressives” has no need to be labelled. I am not “cis-gendered” I’m a man. My wife is not “cis-gendered” she is a woman. Those who are man in woman or woman in man are transsexual. But, again, you make a good point and I’ll need to think about this. > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > _Aneurysm of an Imbecile: My Life Story_, by Zeke N. Destroi. You can lick the shiny nuggets out of my lilly-white-cis-gendered-asshole. I’ll make more when you ask for seconds. > [@faithfool](#): > > Considering **Leaffan** just started down this journey and it’s very personal to him and his family, versus a bunch of existential angst for the OP, I think we should cut him some slack. Don’t you? I don’t recall saying anything to or about **Leaffan**. But frankly his kid going through this is no different than a “cis-gendered” kid that gets thumped on the daily for reasons they don’t understand. Sympathy and empathy? Certainly. Special emotional status? Fuck no. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > There is a good argument to be made that gay rights were achieved on the backs of the transgendered. Then make it please. Or, in SDMB lingo, cite? > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > 😕 I would really like to hear more about how trans people are forcing you to be involved. Is this like when gays wanted the right to get married, all straight men were immediately forced to marry a man? Do you have to give yourself a shot of estrogen every time you hear about a trans person on TV? > > Come on, before they can leave you the fuck out of it, you gotta say how they are forcing you the fuck into it. Another illiterate. Read the OP and come back with pie. Or just go have beers with **Tom…** and have a feel-good-righteous-warriors hugs about it. > [@Acsenray](#): > > “Go ahead and fight for your rights if you feel you must but don’t engage in any of the practices that would draw attention to your cause so that you can make that argument to the public.” > > Is that about it? > > Since when has there been a successful civil rights campaign that happened without trying to make the public aware of the cause? Not in the least. The cause is out there. We are all aware of the issue. Right thinking people are on side with people being treated as people. I’m annoyed at the cause celebre factor and the ubiquity of it. Frankly the OP was spurred by a bunch of things in my news feed, tacked on to reports about trans celebrities plus a show on the CBC radio. Trans-people are NOT special. They are people with a significant problem who face persecution because of who they are. In that they are NO different than shittons of other people who face persecution (up to and including beatings and death) because they are who they are. > [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Here’s the thing, there’s a lot of things about a lot of people that most people can’t understand. Sometimes I can sympathize, others I can empathize, still others I struggle with even getting why something that’s mundane to me is big to other people and vice versa. > > For instance, using my own experience, I struggle with depression. The worst thing is when people are just like “get over it”. They don’t understand, but I don’t really expect them to because it’s outside of their experience. People who realize that either don’t do it or accept a correction when given, other people who don’t are probably just callous and I don’t have any real desire to associate with them > > For me, even as a man, gender has never been something that’s that important to me, I often don’t even really register other people as male or female. To that point, macho men and girly women are just as confusing as transgender as I just don’t have an experience of my gender having much to do with my identity. But as it’s clear it has a lot to do for a lot of people. What happens when one part of a person’s identity, something they hold very dear to who they are doesn’t match up with society’s expectations for that? Aside from my gender, I DO have other aspects of who I am that don’t match up with society’s expectations, and for the most part (overwhelmingly, even) it doesn’t cause me to have problems dealing with everyday life. > > So, what if some aspect of who you are, what is very real to you down to your core were something that caused, at best awkward, and at worst bigoted or violent, interactions on a daily basis? Don’t you think you’d want something changed? Sure, like with sexuality, one can try to hide it, and can probably get by, but then one is living in denial, and that leads to all sorts of psychological problems too. > > The point is, real people, real families are suffering, and I think we as a society should be willing to make reasonable accommodations to that end. For instance, it’s a trivial effort to use preferred names or pronouns, but that can go a long way to making someone feel accepted. > > Frankly, I dislike the term cis-gendered too, but mostly because in everyday life, it’s largely a meaningless distinction. By that, I mean in the context of what the trans community is dealing with, and talking about, there needs to be a precise way to refer to various states of gender and sex and all of that that’s, to a large extent, outside of my general knowledge. But in a given encounter with a given individual, I could give a damn what is between someone’s legs, what state of transition they are or aren’t in. And so, for me, if you present as male, you’re just male, and same for female; I don’t need to make a distinction between trans-male and cis-male, etc. > > So, my point is, if someone is using the term in a discussion like that, leave it alone. If someone uses it as a pejorative–and I have seen cis-gender used that way, unfortunately–then go ahead and call that person an asshole. Or, better yet, just ignore them. > > Really? I remember a bit of a commotion around the whole Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner thing, and then some more stuff about transgender bathrooms, but even the latter has mostly been dropped in favor of election coverage as far as I’ve seen. What media outlets are you seeing that are still that focused on transgender issues as a hot button topic enough to the point that you’d get sick of it? > > But that’s the point. It’s one thing to say to them to just do what they need to be happy. But that’s not enough. This is sort of like saying “if you’re gay, go ahead and fuck dudes, I don’t care, leave me out of it”. This involves you because it involves society. They’re seeking acceptance in society as a whole. In order for them to have anything that might approach happiness, they’re asking society to make a few small changes for them. > > Think of it this way. It’s like passing laws making it illegal to be racist, giving all races the right to vote and all, but then people still give uncomfortable stares at other races based on various stereotypes or talk differently or whatever. It’s not enough to have equality on paper, there’s more to it than that. Some transgender people will get weird looks or get treated with some degree of contempt or disgust or whatever. > > Fair enough. And I don’t ask for the world to do that for me either. We ALL have challenges, some of need help, some more than others, and particularly at risk are those who need help and are unwilling or unable to ask for it. I want to live in a world where people can be treated equally in these regards. And, you know, helping other people, even in these small things, and having these pleasant interactions is one of the things that actually helps me with some of my own challenges. And sometimes people help me in ways I didn’t think anyone could. > > Maybe you could be in a similar place where maybe others can help you and make your life suck less if only you let them or asked. If you’ve been in a place where society has attacked you for something about who you are, this is exactly the sort of thing that might end up helping you. > > Why does it matter who did the leg work? If anything, this is a GOOD thing. Why should each group of people who are oppressed in some way have to start from scratch? It took decades to get black people and women more or less treated equally, it took maybe a couple to get gays into a similar place. It looks like it’s taking transgender a little less time. Isn’t it progress that we can see how people are harmed and respond to it faster and faster? > > How awesome of a world could it be when we identify something wrong, and rather than waiting for old generations set in their ways and bigotry to die off and slowly fix things, we can just make a little effort and change things in a few years? I want to live in that world. > > And, to an even larger degree, the same can be said about race relations and gender relations. Yet, there’s still situations that crop up of racial or gender bias. These have generally gotten better over the years, but there’s no state of permanent victory. Yeah, I think sometimes things get a little ridiculous and taken too far on some of these fronts and that can sometimes drown out very real issues with nonsense, but we still have an obligation as a free and just society to recognize issues and address them > > Frankly, this seems to be the biggest issue. I have a friend who is super into politics but was complaining about how draining it was and how it was EVERYWHERE (which, admittedly is worse here in the DC-metro area than pretty much anywhere else). I made some advice to him to stop watching certain channels and reading certain sites. It was about a week later he commented on how much difference it made in just seeing less of it and how much more relaxed he was and could focus on other things. > > Simply put, if you’re hearing too much about something, even if it’s something you are generally sympathetic to, adjust where you’re getting your news and information from and who you talk to about things. This is something you have control over, and it’s pretty darn quick and easy to fix. > > I think your anger around the issue will fade pretty quick and perhaps even your sympathy toward the issues will increase if you make that small adjustment. Other than the fact that it is NOT anger - it is annoyance - I agree with you 100% and I quoted you in the entirety because I think you are absolutely correct. Thank-you. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > I think the word “cisgendered” just doesn’t flow right – it sounds rather awkward. I don’t care about what it means, just the way it sounds. > > Well, obviously you DO care, or you wouldn’t have spent so much time writing a long, angry screed about it. I wish people would stop accusing me of being angry when I am not. I’ll shout it for the benefit of the cheap seats, " I’M NOT ANGRY!!!" I am annoyed. Not true, I was annoyed. I was momentarily annoyed. I am no longer annoyed by trans-stuff. Some posters have given me something to think about - specifically my objection to “cis-gendered” - others have been knee-jerk fuckwits - **Tom…** - and have given me little to ponder. I guess, to me, it comes down to we all have our own shit. Your shit is as important to you as my shit is to me. I dare the family of a trans-kid to tell the family of a bullied suicide kid to say that their child is somehow special. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/93 "2016-08-13T22:54:21Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > You know, there’s been years that apparently all anyone has heard about are the Kardashians… The seemingly unstoppable juggernaut of the Kardashians publicity machine. There’s a great documentary film, [Next Goal Wins](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6386868/?ref_=tt_cl_t2) which is about the American Samoan soccer team trying to bounce back from their record 31-0 defeat in a World Cup qualification match. Jaiyah Saelua, born Johnny Saelua was the first, as the Samoans call it, “third gender” footballer to play soccer at international level. It’s a great film, not only about Jaiyah, but about fighting back against the odds and you don’t have to be a soccer fan to appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/94 "2016-08-13T23:41:49Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Choke on a piece of shit you fucking mo-tard. Accuse me of “trans-phobia”. I’m not in the least. Check your fucking attitude and come back. Uh huh. Bless your heart, child. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/95 "2016-08-13T23:55:50Z")
I think **Zeke** must have just recently attended a “How to Make Friends” seminar! ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/96 "2016-08-14T00:09:10Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Uh huh. Bless your heart, child. Isn’t there a gym you should be getting kicked out of somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/97 "2016-08-14T00:22:26Z")
[Moderating] **Zeke** , please read the [rulres on acceptable language in the Pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858), because you seem to have broken nearly all of them. No warning issued this time. Please be more careful so there isn’t s next time. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/98 "2016-08-14T00:32:56Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Isn’t there a gym you should be getting kicked out of somewhere? Speaking as someone who has criticized Ambivalid in the past: You are failing to win hearts and minds. This whole thing looks like a petulant tantrum. I really have no sympathy that you have to hear about an issue you don’t understand or are sick of. There are people suffering and they have just begun to speak out for reasonable treatment from society. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/99 "2016-08-14T00:40:19Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Isn’t there a gym you should be getting kicked out of somewhere? Im working on my current gym now. But I must ask for patience, as my current gym’s management seems quite decent. But I’ll find a way! ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/100 "2016-08-14T00:40:27Z")
Yep, _totally_ not angry. Can’t imagine why people might think he’s angry… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519.md?page=6)