# I Don't Get and Am Sick of Trans-Stuff **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519 "2016-08-12T02:10:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/141 "2016-08-14T21:43:12Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Actually, it isn’t that I don’t care. I do care and I feel for them. I’m just burned out about hearing about it. Maybe quit hanging out in LGBT clubs. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/142 "2016-08-14T22:01:22Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Actually, it isn’t that I don’t care. I do care and I feel for them. I’m just burned out about hearing about it. Then blame the media, not trans people. The media have decided that transgendered people sell, and they’re going to sell that until it does’t sell anymore. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/143 "2016-08-15T00:59:39Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Were you born this fucking stupid or did it take practice? Traumatic brain injury perhaps? > > Oh, I get it now. You figure that you have the right to hurl accusations of hatred and bigotry around because that’s what the cool kids do and you so desperately want to be one. > > If you charge your clients anything counsellor you are gouging them. Actually, the post to which you are responding is a pretty good paraphrase of your OP. That it bothers you to recognize the hatred streaming off your text is a good thing. Unfortunately, you seem have a Trump-like penchant for blaming other people for simply observing your faults. Too bad. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/144 "2016-08-15T05:11:34Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Part of the issue here, from this across-the-Atlantic and a language gulf point of view, is on one hand gender vs sex, and on the other the general American obsession with little labels and little boxes. We don’t need bigotry to fight bigotry. Keep your nationalist nonsense out of this thread and off this board, please, and examine your prejudices if you think you can stereotype a whole country that blithely. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/146 "2016-08-15T05:24:11Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > We don’t need bigotry to fight bigotry. Keep your nationalist nonsense out of this thread and off this board, please, and examine your prejudices if you think you can stereotype a whole country that blithely. Thing is…he’s right. Americans do like simple, easily compartmentalized answers. It’s a valid nationalist observation. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/147 "2016-08-15T05:29:26Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Thing is…he’s right. Americans do like simple, easily compartmentalized answers. It’s a valid nationalist observation. **Nava’s** a she. But I agree, she’s spent enough time in the US to get a handle on our culture. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/148 "2016-08-15T06:13:49Z")
And I’ve also lived and worked in multiple other countries and other languages where the word “gender” isn’t a part of the general conversation at all (people talk about “sex”, except for the occasional politician or law), and/or in which there is a general understanding that individuals are however they are. The language on the issue is completely different, not just in terms of which language people speak but what kind of words and concepts are used. If I heard someone from any of those other countries say things such as “a wife should never make more money than her husband” or “I don’t want my doctor to be [the opposite gender]”, I’d assume they believe Pius XII to be horribly leftist. In America you hear that from all kinds of people. It’s just a completely different discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/149 "2016-08-15T07:43:14Z")
Last week another transgender acquaintance came out at work, after a flawless career of 3 years…and was fired within the hour. Five days ago a lady I know had to remove her child from school and send him into a homeschooling group due to incessant bullying from other children after a “concerned Christian parent” violated the child’s privacy and spread his status through the parents’ grapevine. Three days ago I personally was working in Nana Plaza, Bangkok, with the transgender prostitutes (kathoey) who have to do some pretty demeaning and awful things to survive. Two days ago a transgender friend in North Carolina wrote me about being threatened with assault with a deadly weapon for using the bathroom which corresponds with her gender identity (and no she’s not going to report it because the people who threatened her know who she is and where she lives, and in the real world the police are not there 24/7 to protect you.) Clearly these folks don’t think that the time has come to shut the fuck up about our rights and ourselves. And neither do I. We are still in the news because we have so far left to go, in the US and worldwide. We are not protected by employment laws in wide stretches of the US, we are still facing crippling levels of unemployment and underemployment due to bias, we are still facing exclusion from treatment by most insurance companies, we are still facing societal discrimination from K-12 schools to nursing homes. And we are still being verbally and electronically harassed, bullied, physically attacked, raped, and murdered for being what we are. Not to mention having an entire half of our two-party system openly championing a reversal of the current patchwork of protections, and increased discrimination and intolerance, towards me and mine. Even the Pope can’t stop talking about how we somehow threaten humanity itself, like nuclear weapons I believe was his paraphrase. I would love nothing more than to never read about the need for transgender rights in the news again, meaning that we finally had **won.** I’d love to see us be no more controversial or newsworthy than someone saying they were Canadian, Cajun, or Ethiopian. I’d love for us and out gender identity to never again be a topic of whispered gossip in the workplace, of taunting in school halls, and of snickers and threats muttered over drinks in a restaurant. Work to make us leave you the fuck alone, by supporting us and fighting for our rights. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/150 "2016-08-15T08:48:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > There’s lots of issues that other people are passionately involved in, which I just don’t care about. Nobody ever jumps my shit because of it, though. Because they don’t know I don’t care, because I don’t bother to tell them. Because I don’t care. > > On the other hand, if a person, unprompted, writes a five-hundred word essay about how much they don’t care about a subject? I think they actually do care, a little, and their concern isn’t exactly friendly. Sure, I agree on the second part to an extent - but I also think “I am sick of hearing about this issue because it doesn’t affect me at all in any way, shape or form” is a valid viewpoint that doesn’t automatically make the holder an awful person, no matter how much people supporting the cause wishes it did. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/151 "2016-08-15T11:04:04Z")
There’s a difference between stating you have no interest in a topic because it’s not a person concern and the position where you’ll telling other people to shut the hell up because the topic doesn’t concern you. If you have no interest, fine - if you don’t want to hear about it then change the channel. Most people like this don’t get their panties in a twist over the topic. People who try to shut other people up DO actually have a interest in the subject, but it’s a negative one. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/152 "2016-08-15T14:48:37Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > **Nava’s** a she. But I agree, she’s spent enough time in the US to get a handle on our culture. It’s bigotry to imagine you can generalize over a whole group of people like that, like how it’s bigoted to imagine that all East Asians are good at math even if you can point to statistical surveys which show that East Asians overall do better on math tests. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/153 "2016-08-15T16:13:01Z")
Funnily enough, people have been talking about white as the opposite of black since at least the time of Aristotle (no cite as I’m on mobile, but check the Categories in a discussion of contraries and opposites – that’s an explicit example there). ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/154 "2016-08-15T17:49:40Z")
Additionally, I can’t find many cites as to what “linguistic opposites” means in general. But I did find a textbook [here (Google books)](https://books.google.com/books?id=U_dfCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA392&lpg=PA392&dq=%22linguistic+opposites%22&source=bl&ots=3cfyvSbTJB&sig=zHhyQIEUV5BMJs_DzMzDxY-wHuo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig5tvW_MPOAhVFbxQKHTS0AVoQ6AEIJDAB#v=onepage&q=%22linguistic%20opposites%22&f=false) that specifically uses ‘gradable antonyms’ like tall and short as an example of a linguistic opposite. If I say you’re not tall, that doesn’t mean you’re short; and similarly if I say you’re not transgendered it doesn’t mean you’re cis-gendered. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/155 "2016-08-15T17:58:05Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > All rights have been conferred upon them. You want to back that up with a cite? > [@](#): > > In fact - just to pull the Trump double down - I’d say that trans-people have a leg-up in that there are specific groups they have at their disposal in order to support and help them. There are school clubs (granted not in all schools) there are community groups there are supports. Wow… > [@](#): > > I do think that their struggles are in no way harder or worse or more destructive than those experienced by a multitude of other non-normative people. You really have no education nor experience on this subject, do you? Even if what you said was true (and it isn’t), you’ve missed the one, critical difference of being transgender versus anything else. > [@](#): > > Trans-people have already “won” the rights that they already had and the shit that they put up with for being trans is in no way different than the shit black people put up with for being black, fat people put up with for being fat, and weird people put up with for being weird. Nope. > [@](#): > > Trans is a battle already won. You should try reading some of the 50,000 or so words I’ve posted on this subject since I came out here. You’re demonstrably and factually wrong. I won’t call you a flat-out transphobe, but you certainly are not speaking from the standpoint of someone who has done even cursory Google-level research on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/156 "2016-08-15T18:43:46Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > You are still about as useful as tits on fish. Speaking from personal experience, tits on a fish are very useful ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/157 "2016-08-15T20:02:48Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Last week another transgender acquaintance came out at work, after a flawless career of 3 years Serious question - can you expand upon what this means? The person was always dressing as their gender identity and finally told people that they were transgendered? Or were they dressing as their biological sex, and then finally came to work as their real gender identity, or something else? > [@](#): > > Three days ago I personally was working in Nana Plaza, Bangkok, with the transgender prostitutes (kathoey) who have to do some pretty demeaning and awful things to survive. Are these demeaning and awful things any different than those the gender-typical girls that work there have to do? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/158 "2016-08-15T20:17:54Z")
I read through this and had to check my wall calendar … whew, it’s not 1986 … anyway, Oregon recognizes three genders currently; masculine, feminine and non-binary. How does this work into the “_cis-_/_trans-_ are opposites” discussion? Would this make Jesus Christ \*trans-\*gender since by all canon accounts He died a virgin. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/159 "2016-08-15T23:14:03Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Serious question - can you expand upon what this means? The person was always dressing as their gender identity and finally told people that they were transgendered? Or were they dressing as their biological sex, and then finally came to work as their real gender identity, or something else? They dressed and presented male for 3 years, had a heart-to-heart with their boss telling them that they had to transition, gave them a plan of action and information, offered to bring in (at the employee’s own cost) experts on transgender workplace integration (I being one of them) to help HR and make the process as smooth as possible…and they were fired. > [@](#): > > Are these demeaning and awful things any different than those the gender-typical girls that work there have to do? Focusing on the trees instead of the forest. They are driven there due to the problem of vastly disproportionate unemployment of transgender persons. I’ve worked as an advocate and outreach person for women and men working the streets of all gender identities and expressions; I know a bit about what both transgender and non-transgender women have to go through. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/160 "2016-08-15T23:38:54Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I read through this and had to check my wall calendar … whew, it’s not 1986 … anyway, Oregon recognizes three genders currently; masculine, feminine and non-binary. How does this work into the “_cis-_/_trans-_ are opposites” discussion? Would this make Jesus Christ \*trans-\*gender since by all canon accounts He died a virgin. Since Jesus was born by immaculate conception, he almost certainly did not have a Y-chromosome, unless one admits that God has chromosomes (and thus God itself would be a biological being). Thus Jesus would have inherited only an X-chromosome from Mary, and thus is karyotype would be XO. Jesus therefore was an intersex woman with [Turner syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_syndrome), which explains her somewhat masculine appearance. (actually if I understand genetics enough, she would still be short about half her chromosomes because she’d have to get to 45 to be a Turner girl…unless a miracle occurred…oh, wait 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519/161 "2016-08-15T23:46:52Z")
> [@Lucky\_Mike](#): > > I think the most tragic thing about this whole argument is that gender is a social construct. It is not about genetics. > > Yes, there are some biological differences between men and women, but the notion of gender has nothing to with biology. > > You do not have to cut off your penis, or change your vagina, to identify as female/male gender. You have to do that to try and artificially identify as a male or female sexually, but not for gender. > > The great crime in our society is that we have people mutilating themselves in order to be socially accepted when they wear clothes different from their biological sexuality, or when they adopt certain behavioral traits associated with a gender. They should just be accepted for their behavioral preferences and be referred to by the pronouns they desire, regardless of what sexual organs they possess. > > Anyone who rationally chooses to surgically alter themselves AFTER they understand gender is a social construct, then that is one thing. But, if someone is forced by society to think they must harm themselves to be “accepted” as a certain gender construct, then that is a tragedy. A major part (but likely not the main part) of the decision to undergo SRS is to have a body which will be functional in sex in the new gender role. At the current time in America, it is (very?) highly unusual to find a straight non-transgender man who is interested in a long-term relationship with a transgender woman with a penis. It is slightly more common to find straight non-transgender women who are willing to be with a transgender man without a penis, but in many cases I know of the lack of the penis is a constant issue in the relationship. Maybe if we get to a point in society where genitals matter primarily for procreation and much less for recreation, things will change. I’m not holding my breath. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-and-am-sick-of-trans-stuff/762519.md?page=9)