# I don't get/believe in Beyonce as "megastar" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 21, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607 "2015-03-21T15:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/181 "2015-03-25T03:50:17Z")
I just want to echo what some have said upthread, that I’ve noticed time and again that this board doesn’t “get” R&B and rap/hip-hop. Which, in itself, is not a problem, the problem comes when people see that as proof of their refined taste, and want to educate the rest of us on why our tastes are teh dumb. (And I’m not saying that because my tastes skew towards R&B, actually I have very broad taste, that’s partly because I don’t get sniffy about music genres). On Beyonce specifically, I think she deserves to be a star as much as anyone right now. I think she did some great music with Destiny’s Child, and I’ve liked a lot of her solo work and collaborations. I think she has a great voice; maybe not up there with the very best, but calling her third tier or whatever is going way too far. And yeah, she’s got the looks. Musically, she’s probably peaked now, but of course that’s the norm in music, even among the superstars. Doing great performances, and turning out the occasional _Single Ladies_ is about as good as any star has managed, post peak. Finally, I even want to come out in support of Starship’s We built this city! It’s not a good tune by any means, by I think people really beat up on it because of the uncool lyrics. It’s got a couple of hooks in there and you can see why it sold well and remains a popular karaoke track. There are plenty of hit songs from that era I could play that would wash over you and 10 minutes later you would not be able to recall well enough to hum. WBTC isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/182 "2015-03-25T03:58:07Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > … I don’t listen to music (or make it) to be entertained. If that was all I cared about, then the making-of process would mean little to me. As it happens, I have little appetite for phonies, and one of the quickest ways to spot one is to see that they’re just a product, assembled by a team of professionals who want to sell said product to people just looking for entertainment. Michael Jackson and Madonna assembled themselves, in large part. So does Lady Gaga. All of those people compose(d) much of their own material. I may not listen to it, but they aren’t phonies… This board is so often edifying. It’s fascinating to learn of other people’s perspectives, regarding something I care about. I love music, over multiple genres, and the notion of placing such a great deal of importance on authenticity is… well, I can only describe it as alien. If I had to make a list of things that are important to me about music, authenticity wouldn’t make the top ten, so it’s hard for me to grok the notion of someone considering it the single most important thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/183 "2015-03-25T04:43:40Z")
> [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > This board is so often edifying. It’s fascinating to learn of other people’s perspectives, regarding something I care about. I love music, over multiple genres, and the notion of placing such a great deal of importance on authenticity is… well, I can only describe it as alien. If I had to make a list of things that are important to me about music, authenticity wouldn’t make the top ten, so it’s hard for me to grok the notion of someone considering it the single most important thing. Correspondingly, I find _that_ thought-provoking. I didn’t much like music (or like much music) at all until I discovered things that spoke to me, said something to me about my life, and seemed thoroughly authentic (though I wasn’t consciously thinking of authenticity per se, as I was too young). I’m struck by what it says about me that I responded so strongly to such dark, painful material at twelve years of age, but that’s another discussion, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/184 "2015-03-25T05:04:04Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Film-making is different, but even so, aren’t you impressed by the auteurs who can write/direct/produce/act in their own material? You mean like Tommy Wiseau :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/185 "2015-03-25T05:10:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You mean like Tommy Wiseau :dubious: Ha! Just like Ed Wood. No, I was thinking of Woody Allen, among others. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/186 "2015-03-25T05:27:39Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Ha! Just like Ed Wood. No, I was thinking of Woody Allen, among others. I don’t know - the only Woody Allen movies I can remember seeing are _Vicky Cristina Barcelona_ and _Match Point_ (spot the common element :)) , and he wasn’t in those, that I can remember. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/187 "2015-03-25T12:54:36Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Why don’t you care? It’s a subjective thing really so does it really matter? Her music is still great; she collaborates with interesting songwriters; she has her own creative input into the process which makes it ‘authentic’. For someone like Rihanna, I enjoy her songs but I’m not particularly interested in her as a person. Beyonce is a little more interesting to me. > [@](#): > > Not talentless hacks, but they are the puppets of others, and I don’t know why that’s considered so reputable. I read an interview with System of a Down guitarist Daron Malakian, in which he was expressing bafflement at the popularity of American Idol and its ilk, in which the music was entirely being contrived in full view of the viewers! I share in that sentiment, which is part of the reason why the 2009 “Killing in the Name” Christmas campaign made me so happy. I loved how Tom Morello commented on not only was it great to defy Simon Cowell for his mean-spiritedness, it was also great to counter all the schmaltzy ballads emanating from shows like that. I liked that campaign too but it was a reaction against a deeply manufactured process where an X Factor song gets to No 1 no matter if it’s a good pop song or not. It’s a bit different from reacting against Beyonce who’s carved out her own path recently (having parted from her father professionally), who is a phenomenal performer and who has plenty of genuinely great songs. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/188 "2015-03-25T13:15:42Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > And a bunch of people agreed with me. That’s why I put up some but not all of my musical posts: to debate. Do you think we should just put up only orthodox opinions that will garner mostly agreement? You seem to be positioning yourself as the stalwart defender of the conventional wisdom in this thread. And getting mad about stuff in the process. With both Costello and now with Beyoncé, you are basically saying “I don’t like them and they are therefore Not Good.” When you are presented with thoughtful discussion, e.g., Costello is actually a great singer technically, but, sure, has a tonality that some folks don’t like, or the Beyoncé is popular for clear, quality, musical reasons (and nothing like Kim K in any way that matters) you come back with long posts that basically say “I still don’t like them.” I get upset because you don’t demonstrate an open-minded willingness to learn; you just keep saying “I still don’t like them.” I hear you: you don’t like Beyoncé. Totally cool. And as for Sledgehammer - again, cool that you don’t like it. Your call. But to lump it in a bucket of bad 80’s songs - that’s your call, but perhaps you might acknowledge that it is a well-loved song by most and that YOUR view is perhaps in the minority. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/189 "2015-03-25T20:36:47Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > The [list of best-selling artists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists#250_million_or_more_records) linked above is a seriously weapons-grade time-waster. > > List of biggest-selling artists who have debuted since 1992 (Beyonce debuted 1997): > > 120-199 million records sold: > Eminem, Rihanna, Taylor Swift > > 100-119 million sold: > Britney Spears, Jay-Z, Backstreet Boys > > 80-99 million sold: > Katy Perry, Kanye West, Shania Twain, Lady Gaga > > 75-79 million sold: > Bruno Mars, Robbie Williams, Black Eyed Peas, \*\*Beyonce, \*\* Spice Girls, Andrea Bocelli > > My opinion as an old white guy who doesn’t care for any of the above and doesn’t seek out information about any of them is that the OP is on to something. From the amount of Beyonce-related material that filters into my consciousness from the media, I would have guessed she was much further up the list than she is. I thought she was comparable to Eminem and Taylor Swift, not to the Spice Girls. > > So, although obviously everyone on this list is, objectively speaking, a huge star, my personal experience has been that Beyonce does indeed seem to be more in the public eye than several of her peers who are significantly more popular. Is that list adjusted for inflation, etc…? It seems awfully skewed toward recent acts. I wonder if maybe looking at lifetime sales as a criteria is flawed; maybe something more like number of top 10 albums, or aggregate weeks in the top 40 across the catalog or something like that might be more appropriate. I mean, I’m sure there are people with very large aggregate earnings who weren’t ever chart-toppingly dominant like some of the acts in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/190 "2015-03-25T20:56:49Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Is that list adjusted for inflation, etc…? It seems awfully skewed toward recent acts. > > I wonder if maybe looking at lifetime sales as a criteria is flawed; maybe something more like number of top 10 albums, or aggregate weeks in the top 40 across the catalog or something like that might be more appropriate. > > I mean, I’m sure there are people with very large aggregate earnings who weren’t ever chart-toppingly dominant like some of the acts in the thread. Inflation? It’s unit sales, not dollars. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/191 "2015-03-25T20:57:54Z")
Let me put it this way. She _is_ talented, say a 8. But she’s hyped as if she’s a 10. This causes a disconnect. “She’s all that” yes, but no “and a side of fries”. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/192 "2015-03-25T21:03:24Z")
Beyoncé is obviously a big name in music, and as a celebrity. No doubt about that. But I feel the 2000’s were her better decade, most of her hits occurred in 2009 and prior. Sure her song “Drunk in Love” reached #2 last year, but got scant radio airplay and quickly fell of the charts. The album has gotten plenty of buzz, but no one particular single. There is a difference. Some point to “Single Ladies” as a big hit, as it sure was. But that was from late 2008, six and half years ago! Beyoncé has NOT had a #1 single since the decade began in 2010. Considering how the album got buzz, none of it’s singles did. Have heard her songs on urban stations than Top 40 mainstream. From 2003 till 2009 she got plenty of airplay and her songs were staples of Top 40. This is NOT the case in this decade. To be fair Beyoncé has made a name for herself, even if she stops making any music. But she is hardly the most successful music artist today. Or the past few years, her 2011 release being a flunk. Rihanna and Katy Perry have 13 and 10 #1 singles, compared to Beyoncé’s 5. Both those women have had at least one #1 hit from 2006-2013 for Rihanna and 2008-2014 for Katy Perry. Beyoncé’s five #1’s happened in the last decade, the last of which was in 2008. She is hardly the biggest artist now, no one would argue that Taylor Swift is much more relevant mainstream wise than Beyoncé. Her songs get far more radio airplay than anything Beyoncé. Her most recent song is titled “7/11” and checking the Billboard Hot 100 site of last week’s hit singles, this Beyoncé tune is at #37. Barely clinging on to the Top 40! ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/193 "2015-03-25T21:08:42Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Two words: Vanilla Ice. 😃 Do you really thank Vanilla Ice and Justin Bieber are/were on the same level? > [@bump](#): > > I think I get where you’re coming from- people will say that Justin Bieber isn’t talented… in the same way that people will say that David Carr sucked, or that Matt Leinart sucked, to use a football analogy. Yeah, I hear what you are saying, but I think the relativism of a sports critique is implied given it’s zero sum among other things. Further, I don’t hear people literally saying Carr has NO talent. The critiques I object to are not people saying Bieber or Beyonce suck (akin to an empty sports insult), but rather that they have no talent. > [@alexandra](#): > > I agree that this board is just getting worse and worse for this sort of thing (and in this thread you’ve got people reducing Beyonce to being a ‘burlesque dancer’…) and I regret starting that first thread which has just given a platform to the usual suspects on this sort of pseudoscience. I don’t think you should feel bad about it if the question was asked in earnest. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > My opinion as an old white guy who doesn’t care for any of the above and doesn’t seek out information about any of them is that the OP is on to something. From the amount of Beyonce-related material that filters into my consciousness from the media, I would have guessed she was much further up the list than she is. I thought she was comparable to Eminem and Taylor Swift, not to the Spice Girls. That list is almost certainly wrong. Taylor Swift has had 5 studio albums. The most popular has sold less than 10mm copies. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > So, although obviously everyone on this list is, objectively speaking, a huge star, my personal experience has been that Beyonce does indeed seem to be more in the public eye than several of her peers who are significantly more popular. Keep in mind that album sales are largely dependent on audience demographics. Beyonce’s fans are older and buy fewer albums than the fans of people like Bieber and Swift. It’s not really an accurate measure of the reach of their music. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/194 "2015-03-25T21:16:14Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > With both Costello and now with Beyoncé, you are basically saying “I don’t like them and they are therefore Not Good.” Although I _do_ dislike Costello (his stuff almost always grates on my nerves, though like the song “My Aim is True”), I don’t actually _dis_like Bey. I like a few of her songs and most of her stuff just seems kinda boring, uninspired, and uncreative. > [@](#): > > When you are presented with thoughtful discussion, e.g., Costello is actually a great singer technically, but, sure, has a tonality that some folks don’t like, or the Beyoncé is popular for clear, quality, musical reasons (and nothing like Kim K in any way that matters) you come back with long posts that basically say “I still don’t like them.” I don’t agree with this interpretation, but YMMV. > [@](#): > > And as for Sledgehammer - again, cool that you don’t like it. Your call. But to lump it in a bucket of bad 80’s songs - that’s your call, but perhaps you might acknowledge that it is a well-loved song by most and that YOUR view is perhaps in the minority. Well, it certainly was back in the 80s. I despised popular music at the time and listened to punk and altie stuff. I think 1985-1990 was one of the worst periods in pop music ever. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/195 "2015-03-25T21:18:39Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > Beyoncé is obviously a big name in music, and as a celebrity. No doubt about that. > > But I feel the 2000’s were her better decade, most of her hits occurred in 2009 and prior. Sure her song “Drunk in Love” reached #2 last year, but got scant radio airplay and quickly fell of the charts. The album has gotten plenty of buzz, but no one particular single. There is a difference. Thanks for the excellent analysis that confirms what I perceived on a less informed, more gut level. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/196 "2015-03-25T21:30:29Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > Beyoncé is obviously a big name in music, and as a celebrity. No doubt about that. > > But I feel the 2000’s were her better decade, most of her hits occurred in 2009 and prior. Sure her song “Drunk in Love” reached #2 last year, but got scant radio airplay and quickly fell of the charts. The album has gotten plenty of buzz, but no one particular single. There is a difference. Her album, “Beyonce” has sold 5 million copies in 4 months. It is definitely on track to sell as much as “I am… Sasha Fierce” and “B’day” (8 million each) and may hit “Dangerously In Love” (11 million) - It’s already passed “4” (3 mil). This in an era when album sales are declining. That’s not nothing. Yeah, it isn’t Taylor Swift level sales, but no one sells albums like Taylor Swift does. But Beyonce outsells just about everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/197 "2015-03-25T21:38:34Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Her album, “Beyonce” has sold 5 million copies in 4 months. It is definitely on track to sell as much as “I am… Sasha Fierce” and “B’day” (8 million each) and may hit “Dangerously In Love” (11 million) - It’s already passed “4” (3 mil). This in an era when album sales are declining. That’s not nothing. Yeah, it isn’t Taylor Swift level sales, but no one sells albums like Taylor Swift does. But Beyonce outsells just about everyone else. True that album sales are declining, people don’t buy albums like they used to. I mentioned her album was big, but the particular songs are not getting enough buzz. For an album with that kind of sales, one would expect that it would generate hit singles. Adele’s album “21” from barely four years ago sold a lot, more so than Taylor Swift’s “1989”. So there are other artists who sell millions of albums, though far less than in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/198 "2015-03-25T21:39:41Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Thanks for the excellent analysis that confirms what I perceived on a less informed, more gut level. You are very welcome.😃 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/199 "2015-03-25T22:35:58Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > You are very welcome.😃 But your analysis isn’t correct, per **ISiddiqu**. And she _killed_ with her SuperBowl performance a couple of years ago, and like Prince, who hasn’t had a significant hit in decades - burnished her reputation as a dominant entertainer, i.e., a megastar. :smack: On a complete hijack, has anyone else ever noticed that Rihanna’s _Shut Up and Drive_ is pretty much exactly the same as New Order’s **Blue Monday**? When the song gets going, I find myself singing “How does it feel, to treat me like you do…” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/up7pvPqNkuU/maxresdefault.jpg "Rihanna - Shut Up And Drive") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up7pvPqNkuU) Rihanna definitely focuses on pop singles in a way that Beyonce simply doesn’t. Different approach. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/200 "2015-03-26T12:51:33Z")
The power of Beyonce’! [“You’re not a single lady, buddy.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb9eL3ejXmE&feature=player_embedded) [Heaven and Tianne dance to 7/11 on the Ellen Show.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC906zHRqoo) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607.md?page=11)