# I don't get/believe in Beyonce as "megastar" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 21, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607 "2015-03-21T15:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/41 "2015-03-22T04:03:33Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I am sure there are women here, but I doubt many Black people who would agree with the OP. Threads like this really highlight the myopia of this place when it comes to non-White, or mainstream culture. The sad part is so few here have the humility to admit their blindness. I am myopic with respect to pop culture in general because I don’t watch any standard TV. Pop culture reaches me when it’s big enough to be reported about online. I hear music via recommendations or just happen to hear it out and about. It’s not a white/black thing at all. My point was that I definitely _do_ hear about Beyonce as a media personality, but I don’t hear specific songs and I don’t even people raving about specific songs. It’s as if people are into _her_ but not really into the specifics of her music. Even in this thread, the only songs people have mentioned are ones I already knew, and both are quite old at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/42 "2015-03-22T04:08:10Z")
Come to think of it, I didn’t phrase my OP correctly. I _do_ get Beyonce as a Kim Kardashian-style media personality. I don’t get her as a current musical favorite of the masses, but perhaps people here are pointing out that it’s not really about that any more. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/43 "2015-03-22T06:17:34Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Is anyone in this thread who is confused by her stardom a woman? Or a black person? Not casting aspersions, but wondering if she is harder to “get” if you can’t identify with her in some way. I’m a white guy, and not a particular fan of her in any way (though I personally find her attractive, as celebrities go). But I definitely recognize her stardom. Frankly, I’d say that if someone doesn’t recognize her as a star… or Jay Z… yet celebrates f’in Pomplamoose… . That says something to me. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/44 "2015-03-22T06:23:33Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Come to think of it, I didn’t phrase my OP correctly. I _do_ get Beyonce as a Kim Kardashian-style media personality. I don’t get her as a current musical favorite of the masses, but perhaps people here are pointing out that it’s not really about that any more. I have never sought out a Beyonce song, yet I am highly aware of her as a hit music artist for approx 16-17 years if you include Destiny’s Child (she was always the obvious star). Her solo career started off as a smashing success over a decade ago and has endured. She has many notable songs and her “surprise” album was all over the place as far as media goes. Kim kardashian has a big ass and a sex tape, and ended up marrying a successful celebrity who for some reason wanted to marry a porn star. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/45 "2015-03-22T07:45:22Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > Rihanna to me puts out the better music. She has a more unique sounding voice and think she just puts out better songs. Absolutely. I’m not a fan of **Rihanna** but her voice is way more distinctive and her songs better. **Beyonce** ’s music is bland and disjointed. As far looks are concerned, Rihanna is more mysterious, a bit dark and dangerous. Beyonce? Pretty but meh. > [@](#): > > I am sure there are women here, but I doubt many Black people who would agree with the OP. Threads like this really highlight the myopia of this place when it comes to non-White, or mainstream culture. The sad part is so few here have the humility to admit their blindness. Please. I have no problem with **Whitney Houston** ’s fame for example. She had a very good voice, catchy songs (in the beginning at least) and was really pretty. Her success was not puzzling at all. And don’t get me started on the great soul, funk or jazz artists. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/46 "2015-03-22T08:03:51Z")
Every few years there’s a music “It” girl. They look good, are marketed well and ad nauseum, sing decent but bland, lowest common denominator stuff and then they are gone. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/47 "2015-03-22T08:12:25Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Her history with Destiny’s child (and the other girls), her relationship with her dad and her sister, her marriage to one of America’s other biggest stars, what she wears, how she dresses. All fascinating. > > No way strange and fascinating in the same way MJ was. But I don’t think she’s completely non-fascinating! Eh, I guess. It seemed like with Michael Jackson, all that stuff was inescapable because it was just so odd. With Beyonce, I’ve never heard anything about her relationship with her dad. I know she _has_ a sister, but that’s about it. I’m sure this stuff would be interesting to her fans, but it doesn’t seem like Michael Jackson, whose trivia/life was so bizarre that there were tons of pop culture jokes/references. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Is anyone in this thread who is confused by her stardom a woman? Or a black person? Not casting aspersions, but wondering if she is harder to “get” if you can’t identify with her in some way. I don’t think that it has to do with race/gender, really. I’m female and nonwhite (though not black), and I don’t really get her. I think of her less as an artist and more of a performer with a really great songwriting, marketing, and publicity team. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/48 "2015-03-22T09:03:10Z")
> [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](#): > > I have no problem with **Whitney Houston** ’s fame for example. She had a very good voice, catchy songs (in the beginning at least) and was really pretty. Her success was not puzzling at all. And don’t get me started on the great soul, funk or jazz artists. Exactly! As a vocalist Beyonce is a fairly mediocre talent. Nowhere near the chops of first-tier vocalists like Streisand, Aretha, Whitney, Mariah, Celine, etc., nor of those I would consider second-tier but still superb vocalists such as Adele, Christina Aguilera, Alicia Keys and Cindi Lauper, to name but a few. I’ve always considered Beyonce a third or fourth-tier singer. Adequate, but no great shakes. I think Jay-Z knows it too, and that’s why he’s decided to turn her into an [ass-waving skank](http://d236bkdxj385sg.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Beyonce-Grammys-complaints.jpg), wearing revealing costumes and [flashing](http://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/bey-pop.jpg?w=640&h=457) [her](http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/beyonce5.jpg) [crotch](http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAyNFg4Mjc=/z/chcAAMXQY8JRgesl/$T2eC16V,!)sE9swmZwlwBRgeskd+2!~~60\_35.JPG) at every opportunity while warbling lines like: _“Oh he so horny, he want to fuck He bucked all my buttons, he ripped my blouse He Monica Lewinski all on my gown”_ (Supposedly Michelle Obama is a big fan. One can’t help but wonder if she approves of her daughters listening to lyrics like that.) Of course, this being modern-day America, in which trashy (Kim Kardashian, Nicki Minaj, Miley Cyrus, etc.) has become the quickest and surest route to stardom, it’s paid off big for Beyonce and now she’s a superstar. But she hasn’t made it because of her voice. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/49 "2015-03-22T09:46:59Z")
She strikes me as a burlesque dancer with the face of a Disney princess. Now, I gather that for some young black girls, she and Nicki Minaj are a really big deal. OK, fine, I’m way, way outside that demographic. Would I be into their acts if I were that age? I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/50 "2015-03-22T09:58:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > an [ass-waving skank](http://d236bkdxj385sg.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Beyonce-Grammys-complaints.jpg), wearing revealing costumes and [flashing](http://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/bey-pop.jpg?w=640&h=457) [her](http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/beyonce5.jpg) [crotch](http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAyNFg4Mjc=/z/chcAAMXQY8JRgesl/$T2eC16V,!)sE9swmZwlwBRgeskd+2!~~60\_35.JPG) at every opportunity Each one of those choreography still shots is Mickey Mouse Club compared to heyday-era Madonna, Michael Jackson, Paula Abdul, Mick Jagger, and plenty others. Sex + Pop Music has been the formula since the beginning. If anything, it’s getting tamer. Pop stars actually seem like they’re in constant conflict over the urge to get sexual with their music and performance vs. having to answer to the “You’re not being a good role model!!!” crowd. Sure, old fogeys would complain about Mick Jagger but do you think Mick Jagger ever once internalized a concern of “Oh, am I being a good role model???” For some reason, current pop stars seem to feel some need to be everything to everybody including being a prude for the prude market. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/51 "2015-03-22T11:24:06Z")
Never listened to any of her music on purpose. Never will. ---
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/52 "2015-03-22T12:06:59Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I am sure there are women here, but I doubt many Black people who would agree with the OP. Threads like this really highlight the myopia of this place when it comes to non-White, or mainstream culture. The sad part is so few here have the humility to admit their blindness. Yuuuuup. While I may not stan her, I must admit Partition is catchy as all hell. I mean if bell hooks can dance to it, then I’m ok with turning it up too. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/53 "2015-03-22T12:14:39Z")
> [@piepiepie](#): > > I mean if bell hooks can dance to it, then I’m ok with turning it up too. I’ve never been fond of songs with bell hooks. I prefer a good guitar hook. Songs with bell hooks should be limited to Christmas music. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/54 "2015-03-22T14:08:58Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > She plays the media well. I was agree that she is media star primarily and a music star secondarily. But that claim is largely without basis. She tours constantly and has put out a new album (excluding live albums and other compilations and singles) roughly every two years. Don’t you think maybe this impression might be in part because you don’t seem to be aware of her music? > [@Aeschines](#): > > I don’t really know what that means, when you break it down. As someone said earlier, modern musicians don’t get the same awe and respect that older acts like the Beatles, Elvis, Michael Jackson, etc., used to get. Jay Z is definitely not in that league–not that anyone else is these days. But that is only because the entertainment industry has changed. I don’t think it means you get less respect, but rather less all encompassing popularity. > [@Aeschines](#): > > His stuff has never grabbed me, and I mentioned that to a friend who is into current rap, and he suggested some stuff, and it was just terrible. You mean you THINK it is terrible, right? That is kinda my point. I don’t want to necessarily accuse you of making a definitive statement rather than stating your opinion, but I tend to find people around here seem to have no compunction denigrating aspects of pop or Black culture as inferior with a certitude that reeks of hubris and bias. > [@Aeschines](#): > > I am myopic with respect to pop culture in general because I don’t watch any standard TV. Pop culture reaches me when it’s big enough to be reported about online. I hear music via recommendations or just happen to hear it out and about. It’s not a white/black thing at all. But it is because the media is not some monolithic block. For example, how many David O Russell films have you seen vs. Tyler Perry films? Now keep in mind that both directors films average roughly the same amount (66.5mm vs 57.8mm), and that their total box office haul is highly skewed towards Perry (Russell 465mm, Perry 866mm). Yet, I bet you have heard of or seen more of Russell’s movies because they are “bigger”, right? It reminds me of a comment Neal Brennan, a fairly well known White producer, director, and comedian once said. He was commenting on how many people he has met in Hollywood basically don’t think it’s worthwhile making “Black money”. He was basically saying that it would be harder for Tyler Perry to find funding than for a White guy with his financial track record almost solely because Perry makes Black movies. > [@Aeschines](#): > > My point was that I definitely _do_ hear about Beyonce as a media personality, but I don’t hear specific songs and I don’t even people raving about specific songs. It’s as if people are into _her_ but not really into the specifics of her music. Even in this thread, the only songs people have mentioned are ones I already knew, and both are quite old at this point. Only 3 women have more number one hits than Beyonce, and her latest one was in December of last year ([7/11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4YRWT_Aldo)). So again, could it be that you just don’t hear about her music because you are you, and not because her music isn’t acclaimed and spoken about regularly? I mean, she was just nominated for best album last year. > [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](#): > > I have no problem with **Whitney Houston** ’s fame for example. She had a very good voice, catchy songs (in the beginning at least) and was really pretty. Her success was not puzzling at all. And don’t get me started on the great soul, funk or jazz artists. I would generally argue having a “problem” with someone’s fame is really a nonsensical emotion for an adult generally, but putting that aside, Whitney and Beyonce have very different audiences and music. Plus, I wasn’t people are racist or that White people don’t like Black artists generally, but rather that mainstream and Black culture are unfairly discounted here and in general. And it’s not just normal internet hate, but people sincerely thinking people like Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell have no talent and objectively aren’t funny rather than just not personally finding them funny. That’s to say nothing of people like Kim Kardashian (who people around here would have you believe is famous for no reason) and Kanye West (who it has been argued is also talentless) who somehow have both been remarked about in this thread for no reason at all. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/55 "2015-03-22T15:05:36Z")
[QUOTE=brickbacon] people sincerely thinking people like Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell have no talent and objectively aren’t funny rather than just not personally finding them funny. [/QUOTE] > [@bienville](#): > > I’ve never been fond of songs with bell hooks. I prefer a good guitar hook. > Songs with bell hooks should be limited to Christmas music. Sounds like some folks got a _fever_ . . . and the _prescription_ . . . is more _cowbell._ ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/56 "2015-03-22T15:43:15Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Sounds like some folks got a _fever_ . . . and the _prescription_ . . . is more _cowbell._ Enough cowbell for ya? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/57 "2015-03-22T16:06:39Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Every few years there’s a music “It” girl. They look good, are marketed well and ad nauseum, sing decent but bland, lowest common denominator stuff and then they are gone. Yep this is all true but the subject here is Beyonce. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/58 "2015-03-22T16:07:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I would generally argue having a “problem” with someone’s fame is really a nonsensical emotion for an adult generally OK, I may have chosen my words poorly. What I should have said was : “I can see why **Whitney** became a star.” > [@](#): > > but putting that aside, Whitney and Beyonce have very different audiences and music. Was it the case it the beginning of the former’s career? I’ll admit that by the end of her career, her target audience was likely very different from **Beyonce** ’s. But the question still stands: we’re comparing singers who got their start 15-20 years apart. Didn’t **Whitney** appeal to the hip crowd when she started? > [@](#): > > Plus, I wasn’t people are racist or that White people don’t like Black artists generally I sure hope that it wasn’t what you meant because it looked like that sort of rant. That’d have been simplistic, borderline offensive and just factually wrong. I’ll take your word for it, though :). > [@](#): > > that mainstream and Black culture are unfairly discounted here and in general. Perhaps you feel that way. Being more accustomed to Classical Music forums, this one often seems a bit “light” to me in this respect so it may be a case of difference of perspectives due to what you’re (and I’m) used to. It doesn’t necessarily means that it’s discounted. > [@](#): > > And it’s not just normal internet hate, but people sincerely thinking people like Adam Sandler and Will Ferrell have no talent and objectively aren’t funny rather than just not personally finding them funny. That’s a fair point. I’d agree that having some success requires at least some talent. But huge success often appeals to the lowest common denominator which, I’d tend to argue doesn’t take amazing levels of talent. > [@](#): > > That’s to say nothing of people like Kim Kardashian (who people around here would have you believe is famous for no reason) and Kanye West (who it has been argued is also talentless) who somehow have both been remarked about in this thread for no reason at all. I have no opinion on **Kanye West** but I’d love to hear a detailed description of **Kardashian** ’s “talent”. And yes, I put that word between quotation marks. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/59 "2015-03-22T16:16:05Z")
I hate myself for having to defend her but Kim Kardashian turned Sex Tape infamy into a media empire that makes her millions of dollars. You can hate a society that makes that possible but you have to admit that takes talent of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/60 "2015-03-22T16:33:05Z")
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