# I don't get/believe in Beyonce as "megastar" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 21, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607 "2015-03-21T15:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/81 "2015-03-23T11:00:41Z")
I have been following this thread with interest. I think **brickbacon** has done a good job stepping back and framing Beyoncé and how this thread is looking at pop culture in general and black pop culture in particular. I would say this: I get that Beyoncé’s music is not targeted to my old white guy demo. But I also readily acknowledge that her reputation and respect starts with her music – with her as a musician. She’s been around way too long, in too many incarnations, with too many hits, for me to not start there. Now: if I don’t like all of her music, is that an opportunity for me to dig in a bit more, or to dismiss it? I would do a lot of digging first. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/82 "2015-03-23T11:14:47Z")
To those who question whether Elton John was truly a “megastar,” well, that just proves how hard it is to qualify as a megastar! We can all agree that Elvis, the Beatles and Michael Jackson were megastars. After that… there have been MANY extremely popular musical artists, but that’s not necessarily the same thing as being a superstar. I think Elton John WAS a superstar in the Seventies, but a lot of acts that sold almost as many records as he did (Chicago? The Eagles? The Bee Gees?) weren’t. It’s as much about perception as it is quantifiable record or concert ticket sales. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/83 "2015-03-23T12:31:31Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Oh, I am sure many don’t like rap music. That to me is not really the issue. This place has a real elitist/classist attitude towards a lot of stuff, but Black people/issues/culture get it far worse IMO. Rarely do a couple months go by without a “are Black people stupid” thread, or some other topic of debate that is transparently racist. Right now, we have at least two gems of this sort: > > Why do black pupils in the US underachieve academically when one factors out poverty? > Steophan: ‘“Blacks are subhuman” is either true or false, and by itself has no moral component’ I hate that garbage. It is just racism dressed up with fake science. I intended this to be specifically about Bey, not about black music or culture in general. Someone mentioned Dave Matthews. He’s another guy whose popularity and fame mystify me. He seemed to develop a specific type of cult, people who were really into his shows and whatnot. I can’t stand his voice, and most of his songs have either seemed to me to be either crap or trans-crap. (A little different than Bey; most of her music just seems boring.) > [@](#): > > But do you think people in general aren’t doing that? Because there is a good amount of objective evidence that they are; it’s just that those people don’t interact with you. I made my standard pretty clear from the outset: I see Bey’s fame via the media but I don’t hear anywhere as much enthusiasm about specific songs or really the music in general as I do concerning other artists. Nor have the songs reached out and banged me over the head. Of course, I assume that her fans are discussing specific songs. As far as interacting with people about music, I don’t have any friends that are partisans of modern bands, really. I don’t interact with either Bey fans or Taylor Swift fans. > [@](#): > > Why is think it would be largely fruitless and completely unnecessary give a simple Google search will tell you all of her hits. And for the record, I am not a HUGE Beyonce fan, but I don’t think my opinions on her or her music make her less worthy or a lesser star. I did know that she had hits. The way her hits are celebrated or not seems qualitatively different than those of other artists. To give another example from the world of mediocre white music, One Direction has had some genuinely catchy “event” songs, but I listened to a few from their last album, and they were just terrible. But that album sold in mega-volume, and it had hits. But the hits weren’t “out there” really exciting people in the same way as those from their earlier album(s). But they had a lot of momentum and a lot of teenage girls going crazy over them still. (This is all my perception, mind you.) I think Bey’s current musical fame is sorta the same kind of thing. People are really into _her_, they are looking to see the best in her music. But she’s not putting out albums of “Thriller”-level quality where all of the songs really pop and they are all distinctive enough to remember. Sure, I know albums of that quality level are rare, but that is what a mega-star like Michael Jackson _could_ do. > [@](#): > > Really? “Ouch, awful”? Did listening physically hurt you? Do you really think the song is objectively awful? I don’t know if you are being playful, but your reaction seems hyperbolic and myopic. It’s a really bad song. Generic (for 2015) beat, generic (for 2015) rappy stuff. Dumb lyrics about shaking the booty. _Snore._ “Bootylicious” covered that that shit! That really _is_ a great song. Done, move on. “Partition” just seems half-assed and half-hearted. It is “ouch, awful” to me in a contextual sense. Had it come out in 1995, yeah, wow. But there are just a million songs like this now, and my ear is worn out to them. It is like all the rap that is _still_ doing the bling and hoes thing. “Oh but that _beat_!” Um yeah, whatever. I put a thread on here a few months back about how I thought rap has been in a rut since 2000 (when the Romeo Must Die soundtrack came out, which I love). Based on a recommendation from someone, I listened to the Money Store by Death Grips, and it blew me the hell away: https://www.youtube.com/embed/gcjhJLcIDOA?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=FLoNIOEu6L3pxwosUTVfMQBQ Now _that_ shows what rap can do in modern times. Also, more recently, I had a thread about how it sucks that Aaliyah is dead, and where would she be today in terms of fame? Because I think her level of talent blows Bey’s out of the fucking water. And back in 2000, Aaliyah _did_ hit me over the head with her talent, and that music seemed very modern and _now_. And no, I wasn’t a high school kid, in the demo, anything. I was 29. It was just good music. > [@](#): > > Almost no music that achieves that level of mainstream success is worthy of such a reaction from someone who can competently evaluate music. C’mon, that’s so wrong you can’t believe it. Ever hear of a song called “We Built This City on Rock and Roll”? Ever hear of Phil Collins? If you lived through the 80s, you know that terrible, _terrible_ music can reach the top of the charts. And I’m not even saying that Bey’s music is terrible on the whole. It just sounds like insincere R&B retreads to me. > [@](#): > > But don’t you think it’s more likely that you are not seeing something than your opinion being “accurate”. Well, the whole point of this thread is to gain some insight. I am genuinely curious as to whether my _speculation_ that her music is a appreciated in a different way than that of other artists is correct. > [@](#): > > But they are not famous in the same ways at all. That was my primary point. I think there are _many_ similarities: 1. Both sell how hot they are. 2. Both sell their power-couple-dom. 3. Both sell their in-the-media-ness to maintain and gain in-the-media-ness (both are _not_ just “famous for being famous,” but that is one important “module” of their current fame). 4. Both sell themselves as fashion brands, etc. Personality as product and brand. 5. Both have a similar bland, nondescript ways of talking to the media. They are very neutral and tend to speak in platitudes. It is a kind of practiced vacuity. (Kanye is the very opposite, which makes him a nice media partner for Kim.) The origins of their fame and their respective “products” were originally different, but right now they seem quite similar. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/84 "2015-03-23T12:52:50Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > It’s as much about perception as it is quantifiable record or concert ticket sales. That is very true. _Big Bang Theory_ is currently perceived as big hit show, and it is for 2015, but it would not have ranked in the top 57 in 1994-1995: > **[Why 1994 Was One of Network TV’s Last Truly Great Seasons](https://slate.com/culture/2014/09/network-tv-in-1994-how-the-big-four-s-last-golden-age-happened-20-years-ago.html)** > > This article originally appeared in Vulture. It would have been a miserable failure and canceled right away. But what would have been terrible ratings then are great now. The same thing goes in the record industry. Many #1 albums these days would have been mediocre sellers back in the 1980s. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/85 "2015-03-23T13:16:19Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Beyoncé is beautiful, talented, incredibly hard working and her songs apparently captures the eye of people that like popular music. Add in her “empire” with Jay and there’s really no reason not to understand her enduring megastardom. Some of her stuff maybe a lot less creative or distinctive as other performers (for example, I hated Single Ladies), but most stuff that’s more mainstream isn’t. I agree with all this - she clearly works her ass [sic] off in her singing, dancing and self-promotion. I still don’t like her music though. > [@typoink](#): > > Yeah, except I _got_ that about Jackson. His music was _amaaaaazing_ early on, his performing style was genre-defining, and he was a fantastically fascinating and strange person offstage. I agree. I’ve never been an MJ fan but he was an \*incredibly \*good songwriter and performer, even if he went off the weird end with his personal life in later years. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > You don’t think that any of this applies to Beyonce? I think it all does, if maybe on a smaller scale than MJ. Don’t forget her work as one of Destiny’s Child. How many of the songs she performs does she actually write? > [@brickbacon](#): > > But you do realize [Jay-Z] is widely considered one of the best rappers and modern musicians ever, right? This is pretty much the main indicator that I’m completely out of touch with the rap scene, because everything I’ve heard from him has been terrible. I want crisp rhythms, rhymes and cadences in my rap, dammit, not sloppily-delivered half-assed doggerel. Maybe I’m listening to the wrong songs. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > And why the hell do men on this board keep insisting that Beyonce is “warbling”? I’ve never, ever heard anyone describe a man to be “warbling.” Dave Matthews actually warbles. So does Neil Young. But around here it’s only the skanky ass hoes who do it at the bequest of their pimp husbands. I’m assuming “warbling” refers to that horrible Mariah/Whitney/Christina/every-other-fucking-pop-diva habit of inserting ludicrous melismas into every possible space in a song no matter how stupid it sounds. I don’t recall Dave Matthews or Neil Young doing that, and not nearly as many men do it as women. I think if I ever heard a modern female pop singer actually just hold a note I’d be shocked. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/86 "2015-03-23T13:24:26Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I think there are _many_ similarities: > > 1. Both sell how hot they are. > 2. Both sell their power-couple-dom. > 3. Both sell their in-the-media-ness to maintain and gain in-the-media-ness (both are _not_ just “famous for being famous,” but that is one important “module” of their current fame). > 4. Both sell themselves as fashion brands, etc. Personality as product and brand. > 5. Both have a similar bland, nondescript ways of talking to the media. They are very neutral and tend to speak in platitudes. It is a kind of practiced vacuity. (Kanye is the very opposite, which makes him a nice media partner for Kim.) > > The origins of their fame and their respective “products” were originally different, but right now they seem quite similar. Equating Beyonce with Kim Kardashian, again, is doing you no favors. If you want your arguments to be heard, you have start from a place that acknowledges that Beyonce is a great, talented musician with, at best, some superficial similarities to KK. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/87 "2015-03-23T13:37:25Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > How many of the songs she performs does she actually write? Don’t know, don’t care. Writing your own songs does not a megastar make. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/88 "2015-03-23T14:02:29Z")
I’d say she’s definitely a megastar, although one who the public eye hasn’t really been focused on for the past 4-5 years. Prior to that, from about 2000 through about 2009 she was about as big as anyone got. But since 2009 or so, she’s taken a hiatus, had a baby and from what I can tell, dialed things back somewhat, while other female singers like say… Katy Perry, Rihanna, Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga (to a somewhat lesser extent) have taken up the slack. So I think if you take the last 15 years and look at it as a whole, she’s definitely a megastar, but in the past 5 or so, not so much. I agree that she hasn’t got nearly the radio air time that her competitors have in that time frame. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/89 "2015-03-23T14:33:39Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Exactly! > > As a vocalist Beyonce is a fairly mediocre talent. Nowhere near the chops of first-tier vocalists like Streisand, Aretha, Whitney, Mariah, Celine, etc., nor of those I would consider second-tier but still superb vocalists such as Adele, Christina Aguilera, Alicia Keys and Cindi Lauper, to name but a few. > > I’ve always considered Beyonce a third or fourth-tier singer. Adequate, but no great shakes. > > I think Jay-Z knows it too, and that’s why he’s decided to turn her into an [ass-waving skank](http://d236bkdxj385sg.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Beyonce-Grammys-complaints.jpg), wearing revealing costumes and [flashing](http://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/bey-pop.jpg?w=640&h=457) [her](http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/beyonce5.jpg) [crotch](http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAyNFg4Mjc=/z/chcAAMXQY8JRgesl/$T2eC16V,!)sE9swmZwlwBRgeskd+2!~~60\_35.JPG) at every opportunity while warbling lines like: > > _“Oh he so horny, he want to fuck > He bucked all my buttons, he ripped my blouse > He Monica Lewinski all on my gown”_ > > (Supposedly Michelle Obama is a big fan. One can’t help but wonder if she approves of her daughters listening to lyrics like that.) > > Of course, this being modern-day America, in which trashy (Kim Kardashian, Nicki Minaj, Miley Cyrus, etc.) has become the quickest and surest route to stardom, it’s paid off big for Beyonce and now she’s a superstar. > > But she hasn’t made it because of her voice. This. She is a STAR, as defined by the standards of today. What she is not, is musically talented. Other stars who I think, humble opinion, have near zero musical talent, but are considered huge stars: Kanye Miley Lady Gaga Bieber Pitbull Marron 5 Niki Minaj Rihanna Taylor Swift Usher Not sure he is considered huge, but Pharrel Old School Overrated: Grateful Dead Sting Prince ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/90 "2015-03-23T14:39:06Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Don’t know, don’t care. Writing your own songs does not a megastar make. I guess I somewhat disagree with this, in that when I learn someone doesn’t write their own music it makes me like them a little bit less. Enjoying music, to me, is not just all about the voice, it’s in the emotion or backstory of the song. I like a number of artists who have, at best, mediocre voices, but their music works on another level. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/91 "2015-03-23T14:44:41Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Don’t know, don’t care. Writing your own songs does not a megastar make. Not on its own, no, but it speaks to the MJ comparison. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/92 "2015-03-23T14:46:11Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Not sure he is considered huge, but Pharrel Cite that Pharrell has no musical talent? Back up that assertion, please. From a 2004 article [Like the song? These guys wrote it](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/12/1084289744331.html) > [@](#): > > …a survey in August last year found the Neptunes produced almost 20 per cent of songs played on British radio. A similar survey in the US had them at 43 per cent. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/93 "2015-03-23T14:48:59Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > I guess I somewhat disagree with this, in that when I learn someone doesn’t write their own music it makes me like them a little bit less. > > Enjoying music, to me, is not just all about the voice, it’s in the emotion or backstory of the song. I like a number of artists who have, at best, mediocre voices, but their music works on another level. Someone being a megastar has nothing to do with you or what you like or dislike or prefer. It has to do with the fact that the artist is wildly popular around the world. Like, just because you don’t like Vegemite it doesn’t mean that it’s not a hugely popular food in Australia. Not understanding how or why it can be so hugely popular still doesn’t change its popularity. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/94 "2015-03-23T14:59:16Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > This. > > She is a STAR, as defined by the standards of today. What she is not, is musically talented. > > Other stars who I think, humble opinion, have near zero musical talent, but are considered huge stars: > > Kanye > Miley > Lady Gaga > Bieber > Pitbull > Marron 5 > Niki Minaj > Rihanna > Taylor Swift > Usher > Not sure he is considered huge, but Pharrel > > Old School Overrated: > Grateful Dead > Sting > Prince Lady Gaga, no music talent? PRINCE, overrated? Are you serious?? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/95 "2015-03-23T15:07:16Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Had it come out in 1995, yeah, wow. But there are just a million songs like this now, and my ear is worn out to them. It is like all the rap that is _still_ doing the bling and hoes thing. “Oh but that _beat_!” Um yeah, whatever I just don’t get this. There are a million songs out there like “Partition”? Like what? For context, here is some critical recognition that the song itself received: > **[Partition (song)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_(song))** > > "Partition" is a song recorded by American singer and songwriter Beyoncé for her self-titled fifth studio album released in 2013. Beyoncé co-wrote and co-produced the song with Justin Timberlake, Timbaland, Jerome "J-Roc" Harmon, Dwane "Key Wane" Weir, and Mike Dean, with extra writing from The-Dream and extra production from Jordy "Boots" Asher. The song was sent to urban contemporary on February 25, 2014 as the third single from Beyoncé by Columbia Records. > The song consists of two parts, ... > [@](#): > > In the annual Pazz and Jop mass critics poll of the year’s best in music in 2013, “Partition” was ranked at number 124.[38] Midway the following year, the writers of Spin magazine placed it at number four on the list of the 57 best songs so far. A writer of the publication noted something “intensely gratifying about all the raunchiness on the strip-tease, booty-dropping banger” and added that it “oozes stunty swag and immediately became a coy anthem for pop-loving women; a song to flash and strut and snap to, and not only because the beat does too”.[39] Pitchfork Media listed the song 26th on its year-end list for 2014.[40] Cosmopolitan editor Eliza Thompson ranked “Partition” as the Best Song of 2014 on her year-end list.[41] If it was like every other song out there, would it necessarily have gotten critical acclaim? And that is the difference, right? One can claim well the masses love all sorts of crap, but it’s a harder argument to make when something is also critically acclaimed. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/96 "2015-03-23T15:47:39Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > And that is the difference, right? One can claim well the masses love all sorts of crap, but it’s a harder argument to make when something is also critically acclaimed. But the problem that I have with this sort of sentiment is: who cares what a critic thinks after you’ve heard the song yourself? Their primary utility is as a guide to what you might like before you’ve heard it. I’ll admit to reading the press about my music, but that’s stupid vanity, and I shouldn’t do it. Once you’ve heard the song, your opinion is as valid as any random critic’s. Don’t give them more credit than they deserve. Hell, musicians like some god awful performers (the fat, short one addressing you is included), and you’d think they’d know better than a critic. Now, good criticism can sometimes help you understand a work, but not always. Even if it can help you understand it, it can’t make you like the work. In art, context is just about everything. Listening to Beyonce’s work from my context, and even considering the extra context provided by others: her work is unremarkable enough that her status in the pop pantheon is bewildering to me. For context, in **leftfield6** ’s list, I think Pharrel and Prince are talented enough to have their status, and even they will plop out a golden stinker from time to time. The rest are mediocre pop stars to me. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/97 "2015-03-23T15:50:33Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > But the problem that I have with this sort of sentiment is: who cares what a critic thinks after you’ve heard the song yourself? I know better than a critic what I like. I don’t know better than a critic what is good. Critics can be wrong, but I think they as a whole are more likely to be right than I am about what is good. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/98 "2015-03-23T16:02:24Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I know better than a critic what I like. I don’t know better than a critic what is good. Critics can be wrong, but I think they as a whole are more likely to be right than I am about what is good. But why? “Good” isn’t really an objective judgment. And disregarding that, after I’ve heard it, and heard the criticism, I find it unconvincing and I still think it’s bad, what then? Their information still isn’t of much use to me, is it? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/99 "2015-03-23T16:06:42Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > But why? “Good” isn’t really an objective judgment. And disregarding that, after I’ve heard it, and heard the criticism, I find it unconvincing and I still think it’s bad, what then? Their information still isn’t of much use to me, is it? I disagree that “good” isn’t really an objective judgment. And I find that critical commentary is useful whether I agree or disagree. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/100 "2015-03-23T16:13:26Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > But the problem that I have with this sort of sentiment is: who cares what a critic thinks after you’ve heard the song yourself? Their primary utility is as a guide to what you might like before you’ve heard it. Not at all. Critical acclaim allows one to put a work in perspective. Art isn’t entirely subjective. If it was then these threads basically would come down to arguing that someone’s subjective viewpoint is silly and yours is better just 'cause. But we don’t really think that way, right? We believe that there is some other standard out there. No one just says, well it’s ok to think the Beatles suck and that’s just as valid as my opinion. No, we tend to argue that that opinion is an aberration. Saying all art is merely subjective and therefore the opinions of those more expert on the topic are irrelevant just basically completely shuts down any discussion at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607.md?page=6)