# I don't get/believe in Beyonce as "megastar" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 21, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607 "2015-03-21T15:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/161 "2015-03-24T20:09:52Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Nice. I was referring to the fact that, IIRC, you are the same person who, in another thread, equated Peter Gabriel’s Sledgehammer with Starship’s We Built this City. We’re not going to have anything to discuss if you want to misstate and misinterpret what I say. I don’t actually think those songs are the same at all. One is a terrible, terrible, pretty much objectively terrible song, and the other is (to me) an example of the 80s excess that made a lot of great artists put out a certain type of (to me) annoying song. I do dislike the song “Sledgehammer,” however. > [@](#): > > We clearly have nothing to discuss with regards to music, and you don’t appear to be interested in learning, only getting on a soapbox, so I am outta hear. Weird, I thought I was discussing things pretty civilly here. Mileage varying and all that, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/162 "2015-03-24T20:42:27Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Because it’s beside the point. No one is all “I love Beyonce because she’s such a good songwriter!” and then no longer has any respect for her when they find out she doesn’t write the songs. People love Beyonce’s voice, her style, her looks, the songs she chooses to put on her album. > > People who are good at writing songs write songs for Beyonce to sing. People wrote songs for Aretha to sing. People write songs for Cher and Celine and Buble to sing. People wrote Elvis and Sinatra’s songs. If you are hung up on the idea that those people are talentless hacks because they don’t write their own songs then that is your problem. Not talentless hacks, but they are the puppets of others, and I don’t know why that’s considered so reputable. I read an interview with System of a Down guitarist Daron Malakian, in which he was expressing bafflement at the popularity of American Idol and its ilk, in which the music was entirely being _contrived_ in full view of the viewers! I share in that sentiment, which is part of the reason why the [2009 “Killing in the Name” Christmas campaign](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_in_the_Name#2009_Christmas_number_one_campaign) made me so happy. I loved how Tom Morello commented on not only was it great to defy Simon Cowell for his mean-spiritedness, it was also great to counter all the schmaltzy ballads emanating from shows like that. That’s why Guns 'N Roses were seen as legit amongst all those hair bands, who, despite writing their own songs, wrote shitty songs. It’s why it was so great to see Nirvana knock the simpering Mariah Carey out of the spotlight. Victory for real music! > [@](#): > > I was checking out a[list of the best-selling singles of all time](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_singles) today. More than half of them were not written by the credited performer. Are all of those performers without merit? I’m not going to look at that whole list, but [you’re committing a logical fallacy](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/QualityByPopularVote). > [@](#): > > A great singer-songwriter is an exceptional thing, or a band that collaborates to perform all of their own songs. But they are exceptional. In the entertainment industry, they are not the be-all-end-all. For many - for most - it takes a team of talented people. I’m not interested in the “entertainment industry.” > [@](#): > > Get over it. I didn’t ask you. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/163 "2015-03-24T21:07:08Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > We’re not going to have anything to discuss if you want to misstate and misinterpret what I say. I don’t actually think those songs are the same at all. One is a terrible, terrible, pretty much objectively terrible song, and the other is (to me) an example of the 80s excess that made a lot of great artists put out a certain type of (to me) annoying song. I do dislike the song “Sledgehammer,” however. Here is that thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=711305&page=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=711305&page=2) (Which, by the way, was another music thread where you don’t do yourself any favors trying to slam Elvis Costello) And here is what you said in post #90: > [@](#): > > That is an interesting one. I think their first album has some pretty good songs on it–“Sweet Dreams,” “This is the House.” But then, yeah, they totally sucked. I would say that that is mid-to-late 80s suckage, though. A lot of bands just became unbearable. Annie Lennox did a good job of embodying that “80s music is going down your throat whether you like it or not” vibe. We Built This City. Sledghammer. Money for Nothing. Everything by Phil Collins. It just sucked ass. Parse that statement of yours how you will. FWIW, here is the Best of 1986 thread from a few months ago, where Sledgehammer was voted the Best Single by SDMB’ers: [Best #1 single of the year retrospective: 1986 - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=737957) > [@](#): > > Weird, I thought I was discussing things pretty civilly here. Mileage varying and all that, I guess. If you mean by “civil” folks trying to answer your question by bringing the POV of people who actively listen to Beyonce’s music and you not listening, then sure. Looking for that Sledgehammer quote reminded me how many times you start threads on music that begin with a POV that just doesn’t make sense. Again, that’s why I am not commenting on Beyoncé anymore and (thanks **Starving Artist** ) am outta HEAR… ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/164 "2015-03-24T21:27:50Z")
The [list of best-selling artists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists#250_million_or_more_records) linked above is a seriously weapons-grade time-waster. List of biggest-selling artists who have debuted since 1992 (Beyonce debuted 1997): 120-199 million records sold: Eminem, Rihanna, Taylor Swift 100-119 million sold: Britney Spears, Jay-Z, Backstreet Boys 80-99 million sold: Katy Perry, Kanye West, Shania Twain, Lady Gaga 75-79 million sold: Bruno Mars, Robbie Williams, Black Eyed Peas, \*\*Beyonce, \*\* Spice Girls, Andrea Bocelli My opinion as an old white guy who doesn’t care for any of the above and doesn’t seek out information about any of them is that the OP is on to something. From the amount of Beyonce-related material that filters into my consciousness from the media, I would have guessed she was much further up the list than she is. I thought she was comparable to Eminem and Taylor Swift, not to the Spice Girls. So, although obviously everyone on this list is, objectively speaking, a huge star, my personal experience has been that Beyonce does indeed seem to be more in the public eye than several of her peers who are significantly more popular. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/165 "2015-03-24T21:42:41Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Beyonce does indeed seem to be more in the public eye than several of her peers who are significantly more popular. This sentence makes my brain hurt. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/166 "2015-03-24T21:59:21Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Why don’t you care? The same reason that I don’t care if an actor writes the movie that they are in. It’s kind of nifty, I guess, but I’m ultimately interested in the end product, not the technical thrill of seeing someone be good at two things at once. I mean-- what happens to the brilliant songwriter with a horrid voice? Ultimately. I don’t go to pop music for authenticity. I like restaurants that offer daily menus featuring local in season produce. But I also like Taco Bell. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/167 "2015-03-24T22:21:46Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The same reason that I don’t care if an actor writes the movie that they are in. It’s kind of nifty, I guess, but I’m ultimately interested in the end product, not the technical thrill of seeing someone be good at two things at once. Film-making is different, but even so, aren’t you impressed by the auteurs who can write/direct/produce/act in their own material? > [@](#): > > I mean-- what happens to the brilliant songwriter with a horrid voice? I’m a big fan of Leonard Cohen. Lots of people have never liked Bob Dylan’s voice. Technically speaking, Patti Smith doesn’t and Ian Curtis didn’t have great voices, but that’s totally irrelevant to their awesomeness. > [@](#): > > Ultimately. I don’t go to pop music for authenticity. Indeed, that’s why I don’t go to “pop” music at all. I listen to alternative rock and its brethren for authenticity, and there are myriad other musicians in various styles who, whole I don’t necessarily listen to them, have plenty of authenticity. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/168 "2015-03-24T22:33:52Z")
> [@alexandra](#): > > If you listen to the lyrics of the latest album, BEYONCE, there’s a lot more going on than that. One of the reasons I’m interested in Beyonce is she’s pretty normal and nice, but like most normal people, there’s still stuff going on under the surface. On the album, you’ve got songs about motherhood, grief/miscarriage, jealousy, hints of affairs, sex, “I hate us for making good love to each other”, feminism, sexism, the effects of the misogynist fashion industry…and the videos all go along with the themes really really well. As one example, _Grown Woman_ is accompanied by a hilarious video where she basically deconstructs the whole ‘flawless megastar’ thing. Thanks, I was interested in hearing a fan’s input, and what you say is informative. > [@](#): > > To me Beyonce made the album relevant again (I think one of the reasons her singles aren’t as ubiquitous as they might have been is the popularity of the _album_ first). I hadn’t bought an album since the Django Unchained soundtrack and a proper studio album? I can’t remember the last time. Cool, this could back up my speculation that there is a qualitatively difference in how people enjoy her music. > [@](#): > > I agree that this board is just getting worse and worse for this sort of thing (and in this thread you’ve got people reducing Beyonce to being a ‘burlesque dancer’…) and I regret starting that first thread which has just given a platform to the usual suspects on this sort of pseudoscience. Yeah, I am shocked by the stupid racism, anti-Semitism, and other prejudice I see online. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/169 "2015-03-24T22:44:26Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > This sentence makes my brain hurt. Sorry if I was unclear. “Popular” there is defined in terms of how many people are actually willing to pay money for her music. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/170 "2015-03-24T22:44:46Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Here is that thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=711305&page=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=711305&page=2) > > (Which, by the way, was another music thread where you don’t do yourself any favors trying to slam Elvis Costello) And a bunch of people agreed with me. That’s why I put up some but not all of my musical posts: to debate. Do you think we should just put up only orthodox opinions that will garner mostly agreement? You seem to be positioning yourself as the stalwart defender of the conventional wisdom in this thread. And getting mad about stuff in the process. > [@](#): > > And here is what you said in post #90: Fair enough, but you took what I said and made the worst of it, that I think “Built This City” and “Sledgehammer” were equivalent in quality. I wasn’t talking about that. I was talking about how music industry would cram bad music down our throats in a media blitz. > [@](#): > > Parse that statement of yours how you will. FWIW, here is the Best of 1986 thread from a few months ago, where Sledgehammer was voted the Best Single by SDMB’ers: [Best #1 single of the year retrospective: 1986 - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=737957) I don’t give a shit. Again, your point seems to be that no one should say something popular was bad. I hated “Sledgehammer” and still do. Not really a big deal. > [@](#): > > If you mean by “civil” folks trying to answer your question by bringing the POV of people who actively listen to Beyonce’s music and you not listening, then sure. Apparently “arguing back” is equivalent to not listening? Perhaps you are on the wrong message board. > [@](#): > > Looking for that Sledgehammer quote reminded me how many times you start threads on music that begin with a POV that just doesn’t make sense. Again, that’s why I am not commenting on Beyoncé anymore and (thanks **Starving Artist** ) am outta HEAR… Yeah, like the recent thread where I started off saying how great Aaliyah was. That was incomprehensible! ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/171 "2015-03-24T22:58:15Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Film-making is different, but even so, aren’t you impressed by the auteurs who can write/direct/produce/act in their own material? It’s different for you. It’s not different for me. See how that works? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/172 "2015-03-24T23:01:58Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Not talentless hacks, but they are the puppets of others, and I don’t know why that’s considered so reputable. I’ll engage in friendly debate with you on this. 🙂 First, I agree with you that it’s definitely a good thing when artists do their own material. It does make for the highest grade of artist, perhaps it is fair to say. Here is what I see are the complicating factors: 1. What about bands in which the lead singer doesn’t write much or any of the material? Does the entire band take on the “singer-songwriter” level by virtue of someone in the band writing the material? Oasis is a good example, in which the frontman doesn’t write at all and the writer doesn’t sing at all. Or do each of the Gallager brothers end up a lesser artist than a single dude who combines both talents? 2. What about people who are just songwriters but not performers, such as Irving Berlin? I think they are rightly respected as among the greatest of creatives. But there needs to be someone to do their material. 3. What about the truly great interpreters of material, such as Sinatra, Whitney, etc.? I think perhaps “puppet of others” is unfair in such a case. Not too long ago I heard a Casey Casem Top 40 show, I think from 1972, in which he noted that just a few years ago most material was not written by the artist but now most was. Why did this shift occur? I have a guess. I think that good songwriting is much harder to find than good singing, guitar playing, etc. Songs, in other words, are the pop music bottleneck. So if someone can write good songs, often they can demand that they be the performers in order for the record companies to get to those valuable songs. Even weak singers (in terms of either being in tune, singing powerfully enough, or both) have been able to get solo careers based on their strong material. Carole King I think is a good example. She has a pretty thin, somewhat nasal voice but was proved herself as a killer songwriter and was able to have a solo career. Put another way, a lot of singers out there would never have been able to sell a solo career based on their voice alone. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/173 "2015-03-24T23:03:01Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > It’s different for you. It’s not different for me. See how that works? No, I meant that the process of making a movie is rather different than that involved in making music, thus leading to different valuations of contributions. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/174 "2015-03-24T23:24:27Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I’ll engage in friendly debate with you on this. 🙂 > > First, I agree with you that it’s definitely a good thing when artists do their own material. It does make for the highest grade of artist, perhaps it is fair to say. Here is what I see are the complicating factors: > > 1. What about bands in which the lead singer doesn’t write much or any of the material? Does the entire band take on the “singer-songwriter” level by virtue of someone in the band writing the material? Oasis is a good example, in which the frontman doesn’t write at all and the writer doesn’t sing at all. Or do each of the Gallager brothers end up a lesser artist than a single dude who combines both talents? Liam wrote some songs, and Noel sang occasionally. The whole band counts as legit, but there’s a reason why, when the rest of the band changed but the Gallaghers stayed constant, it didn’t destroy their cohesion. Other bands are really more than the sum of their parts, however. I would have to listen to some of the material Liam wrote, with Oasis and afterwards, to assess him in that way. Plus, I’d be surprised if he never did any editing of Noel’s words and melodies at all. That happens in other bands in which the singer is not the primary lyricist. The second-most-recent issue of _Rolling Stone_ (with Madonna on the cover) has an interview with Noel Gallagher, in which he laments the rise of people like One Direction, who have a whole team of songwriters behind them. > [@](#): > > 1. What about people who are just songwriters but not performers, such as Irving Berlin? I think they are rightly respected as among the greatest of creatives. But there needs to be someone to do their material. There does need to be someone to do their material, and that’s why in straight-up art music, this divide is not usually relevant. If I was in the position of someone like Berlin, or Lieber and Stoller, I would have linked up with others to perform (and further develop/improve) my work collaboratively. Come to think of it, that’s how a great many bands work, and that’s why they’re more than the sum of their parts, ideally, and why solo careers can be so disappointing. > [@](#): > > 1. What about the truly great interpreters of material, such as Sinatra, Whitney, etc.? I think perhaps “puppet of others” is unfair in such a case. I have to concede here that I can’t even relate to this sort of thing. The songs that Sinatra and Houston interpreted have never resonated with me in any way, have said nothing to me about my life, and, in the end, still just seem like product. > [@](#): > > Not too long ago I heard a Casey Casem Top 40 show, I think from 1972, in which he noted that just a few years ago most material was not written by the artist but now most was. Why did this shift occur? > > I have a guess. I think that good songwriting is much harder to find than good singing, guitar playing, etc. Songs, in other words, are the pop music bottleneck. So if someone can write good songs, often they can demand that they be the performers in order for the record companies to get to those valuable songs. Even weak singers (in terms of either being in tune, singing powerfully enough, or both) have been able to get solo careers based on their strong material. Carole King I think is a good example. She has a pretty thin, somewhat nasal voice but was proved herself as a killer songwriter and was able to have a solo career. > > Put another way, a lot of singers out there would never have been able to sell a solo career based on their voice alone. I’d like to think it was because the audience demanded authenticity, but you might be right. I don’t mind that answer either! ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/175 "2015-03-25T00:38:53Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Come to think of it, that’s how a great many bands work, and that’s why they’re more than the sum of their parts, ideally, and why solo careers can be so disappointing. I tend to gravitate toward music by bands myself. Even if was the primary songwriter, I would rather be in a band (a real one, not just a group of musicians at my command) than be a solo artist. > [@](#): > > I have to concede here that I can’t even relate to this sort of thing. The songs that Sinatra and Houston interpreted have never resonated with me in any way, have said nothing to me about my life, and, in the end, still just seem like product. I enjoy a good cover, however, and I think doing covers shows respect for music in general. I like a bunch of the Beatles’ covers and think it’s cool that they did them. (Yes, it’s true they were also lacking for material in the early days…) > [@](#): > > I’d like to think it was because the audience demanded authenticity, but you might be right. I don’t mind that answer either! I think that may indeed be another factor. I think it’s easier to relate to an artist that is the whole package and not simply doing someone else’s work. That relatability is _mostly_ positive but not entirely. I don’t think Bieber’s music stands on its own, and I don’t think it would have sold very much if people had not related to him as a teen idol. I.e., in certain cases, the music is a mode of fantasy/worship and not the main object of appreciation. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/176 "2015-03-25T00:42:34Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > The [list of best-selling artists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists#250_million_or_more_records) linked above is a seriously weapons-grade time-waster. > > List of biggest-selling artists who have debuted since 1992 (Beyonce debuted 1997): > > 120-199 million records sold: > Eminem, Rihanna, Taylor Swift > > […] > > 75-79 million sold: > Bruno Mars, Robbie Williams, Black Eyed Peas, \*\*Beyonce, \*\* Spice Girls, Andrea Bocelli > > My opinion as an old white guy who doesn’t care for any of the above and doesn’t seek out information about any of them is that the OP is on to something. From the amount of Beyonce-related material that filters into my consciousness from the media, I would have guessed she was much further up the list than she is. I thought she was comparable to Eminem and Taylor Swift, not to the Spice Girls. I’m not a Beyonce fan and I’m not sure I could even name three of her songs off the top of my head, but according to her [Wikipedia entry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9) she’s sold 75+ million records as a solo artist PLUS another 60 million as a member of Destiny’s Child. Destiny’s Child’s first single was released in 1997, but Beyonce didn’t release a solo recording until 2003. So if you’re counting her output back to 1997, she’s actually sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 135 million records, which does put her in the same neighborhood as Eminem and Taylor Swift. And while I’m not a fan, I don’t get why the OP thinks Beyonce shouldn’t qualify as a pop “megastar”. She’s a hugely successful entertainer who’s been popular for nearly 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/177 "2015-03-25T00:42:55Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/178 "2015-03-25T02:57:53Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Indeed, that’s why I don’t go to “pop” music at all. I listen to alternative rock and its brethren for authenticity, and there are myriad other musicians in various styles who, whole I don’t necessarily listen to them, have plenty of authenticity. I am mainly an alternative music fan myself. I’m the only 90’s girl I know who was never in to a boy band. I weep when I hear certain Pearl Jam songs. My friend got spit on by Bradley Nowel! No one would ever describe me as a “pop fan” (but now in my older years I’m turning in to a rap fan) But I’m also a music fan, and a talent fan, and an artistry fan. I realize that not everyone can be Lennon-McCartney or Eddie Vedder or Stuart from Belle & Sebastian. And not every song can reach out and touch me. Whatever I like about Michael Jackson has nothing to do with the stuff I like about Nirvana. I can’t say that I own any Lady Gaga songs but I’ve read enough about her as an artist to respect her talent. I don’t own any Billy Joel either but I’ve seen him in concert (for free) and turns out he puts on a great show. Beyonce brings a certain something to the table too. I do own several of her songs - they are great for a workout playlist. And I love to watch her videos on YouTube. Those songs I have actually do speak to me more than anything Live, Creed, Three Doors Down or Linkin Park could ever do. I don’t know who wrote the songs, and I don’t care. She’s the one who they were written for, she’s the one who sang them and she’s the one who was behind them coming to my ears. I don’t know why you are so uptight about what the Rules Of What Is Music And What Should Be Allowed To Be Popular are, exactly. But you should chill out and realize that for most of the history of popular music there have been singer-songwriters, and there have been entertainers/singers/performers and they have co-existed. And sometimes singer-songwriters sing songs they didn’t write (Johnny Cash, Nirvana, The Beatles, Pearl Jam) and sometimes performers end up writing songs they sing (Aretha, Michael Jackson) and they are all here for the love of music, performing and money. And the world of music isn’t just Bob Dylan vs. American Idol. There is a slew of great shit inbetween. Just like GNR gets a pass for shitty music because they wrote it themselves, you should consider giving Whitey a pass because she really put her own magnificent spin on stuff she happened to not write. Beyonce is popular because she does all sorts of amazing stuff that doesn’t include writing music. And she is fucking gorgeous to look at. End. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/179 "2015-03-25T03:23:09Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I’m not a Beyonce fan and I’m not sure I could even name three of her songs off the top of my head, but according to her [Wikipedia entry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9) she’s sold 75+ million records as a solo artist PLUS another 60 million as a member of Destiny’s Child. Destiny’s Child’s first single was released in 1997, but Beyonce didn’t release a solo recording until 2003. So if you’re counting her output back to 1997, she’s actually sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 135 million records, which does put her in the same neighborhood as Eminem and Taylor Swift. > > And while I’m not a fan, I don’t get why the OP thinks Beyonce shouldn’t qualify as a pop “megastar”. She’s a hugely successful entertainer who’s been popular for nearly 20 years. That sounds more right. The list I linked, also from Wikipedia, had her “debuting” in 1997, so I assumed that it was counting the DC stuff in her total, but maybe not. That’s Wikipedia for ya… ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607/180 "2015-03-25T03:46:58Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Beyonce brings a certain something to the table too. I do own several of her songs - they are great for a workout playlist. And I love to watch her videos on YouTube. Those songs I have actually do speak to me more than anything Live, Creed, Three Doors Down or Linkin Park could ever do. Those are some pretty unimpressive bands, for the most part. Straw bands? > [@](#): > > I don’t know why you are so uptight about what the Rules Of What Is Music And What Should Be Allowed To Be Popular are, exactly. But you should chill out and realize that for most of the history of popular music there have been singer-songwriters, and there have been entertainers/singers/performers and they have co-existed. And sometimes singer-songwriters sing songs they didn’t write (Johnny Cash, Nirvana, The Beatles, Pearl Jam) and sometimes performers end up writing songs they sing (Aretha, Michael Jackson) and they are all here for the love of music, performing and **money**. (Emphasis mine.) That’s a big problem. I don’t listen to music (or make it) to be entertained. If that was all I cared about, then the making-of process would mean little to me. As it happens, I have little appetite for phonies, and one of the quickest ways to spot one is to see that they’re just a product, assembled by a team of professionals who want to sell said product to people just looking for entertainment. Michael Jackson and Madonna assembled themselves, in large part. So does Lady Gaga. All of those people compose(d) much of their own material. I may not listen to it, but they aren’t phonies. > [@](#): > > Just like GNR gets a pass for shitty music because they wrote it themselves, you should consider giving Whitey a pass because she really put her own magnificent spin on stuff she happened to not write. No, I meant that all those phony hair bands did write their own songs, but they were terrible, and obviously inauthentic. GNR were obviously legit. > [@](#): > > Beyonce is popular because she does all sorts of amazing stuff that doesn’t include writing music. And she is fucking gorgeous to look at. End. I didn’t start this thread. I didn’t read the beginning of it, actually. I don’t have an opinion on her as a megastar, or for that matter as an artist. I don’t know enough about what her contributions are. I just felt I had to chime in here, because it’s a topic that’s near and dear to me. I like it when humans use non-human puppets, but I don’t like it, or even respect it, when humans themselves become the puppets of others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-get-believe-in-beyonce-as-megastar/715607.md?page=10)